This modpack is meant for those players who are looking for a real challenge. Lots of intermediates and resources to find and process. Big logistics problems that you will need to solve to tame the beast that is this modpack. This modpack will take a while to complete, so be ready for the long haul.
Collections of mods with tweaks to make them work together.
Transportation of the player, be it vehicles or teleporters.
Augmented or new ways of transporting materials - belts, inserters, pipes!
Trains are great, but what if they could do even more?
New ways to deal with enemies, be it attack or defense.
Armors or armor equipment.
Changes to enemies or entirely new enemies to deal with.
Map generation and terrain modification.
New Ores and resources as well as machines.
Things related to oil and other fluids.
Related to roboports and logistic robots.
Entities which interact with the circuit network.
Furnaces, assembling machines, production chains.
Changes to power production and distribution.
More than just chests.
I'll be honest with you. This wont help me. I'll be past the need one way or another by the time you could implement anything. But I've known for some time that there was a huge gap here and now it's a a very inconvenient gap. At one end we have the tier 1 heat exchanger. At the other, the 5000*C heat exchanger from SE (aside - steam can't be at 5000K, it is mostly hydrogen, oxygen and things you probably haven't heard of at that temperature)
In the middle, we have the fusion tech, which has an appropriate turbine, but no heat exchanger, as this is integrated into the reactor. It's also very big.
I need a compact reactor and the shitty 415C exchanger is not good. There should be something which fits in with the nuclear reactors and condenser turbine, which can all do ~1000C. Not just does this affect the footprint, but it's going to more than double the water usage.
I'll be past really needing this within a fortnight. But for the sake of anyone else playing, I really think you should add this.
I don't think that's likely to happen anytime soon if at all. But one of the forks of Turbines++ might give you what you're after. (I don't remember if I thought turbinesplusplusfixed or turbines-plusplus-reloaded was better though.)
Yeah, fair enough. Like I said, not so much for me, so I'm not that put out by the answer.
Also... Not sure how, but I'm NOT losing water. Instead of losing 1% water that goes through the system, I'm gaining a very small amount. Maybe 0.1%. Maybe less. I've flown my little ion ship to a few stars and to put it in a numerical way, I've put 13x40GJ through the reactor (It's much more fuel efficient than I expected perhaps because I found some shenanigans with accumulators to stop the reactor maxing out at 1000C with each fuel insertion) and I have gone from 1.0k water to 8.4k water, and consumed no ice.
The rates are saying this can't happen. Yet it is happening.
Gonna need more information before I can try looking into this. I just tested the SE condenser turbine and the K2SE advanced condenser turbine and both had water loss as appropriate.
Not sure if I can make a spoiler dropdown on this forum. So the next post will be a blueprint. Ice in the expected chest, U235 fuelcells in the expected chest. Fly to a star. Need SSI4 to be able to build it. Solar productivity 3 researched.
Not much more info than that
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BOacBOacBOacBOacBOacBOSfSFviqurStQa6rQa6rQa6rQa6rQa4D57AGzvcNnO8bON83cL5v4HzfwPm+gfN9A+f7Bs73Q22BrxLwVQK+SsBXCfgqAV9Vl5grkGMrkGMrkGMrkGMrkGMrkGNBTYKBWhcDtS4Gal0M1LoYqHUxUOtioNbFQK2LgVqXUFvgqwR8lYCvEvBVAr5KwFcGfFVd+qoEub0Eub0Eub0Eub0Eub0Eub0EuR3UBRmoNzNQb2ag3sxAvZmBejMD9WYG6s0M1JsZqDcLtQW+SsBXCfgqAV8l4KsEfGXAVwZ89TYvJDAvJDAvJDAvJDAvJDAvJDAvJDAvgLo+A/WiBupFDdSLGqgXNVAvaqBe1EC9qIF6UQP1oqG2wFcJ+CoBXyXgqwR8lYCvDPjKgK/e5gUD84KBecHAvGBgXjAwLxiYF0BtbahtCdom0Bb4qgS+KoGvSuCrBHyVgK8S8FUCvkrAVwn4KgFfJeCrBHyVgK8M+MqAr97mBQXzgoJ5QcG8oGBeUDAvgDrzUNsKtC1B2wTaAl+VwFcl8FUJfJWArxLwVQK+SsBXCfgqAV8l4KsEfJWArxLwlQFfGfCV3fHVYrdeHp+2++fF4WH59LRdP47MLQLmFgFzi4C5RcDcAviJUNsatK1A2xK0TaAt8FUJfFUCX5XAVwn4KgFfJeCrBHyVgK8S8FUCvkrAVwn4KgFfGfCVAV/ZHV9lzy0FmFsKMLcUYG4hfE4B5hbA5hlg8wyweQbYPANsngE2zwCbZ4DNM8DmGWDzDLB5Btg8A2yeATbPAJsXagt8lYCvEvCVAV8Z8JXd8VXu3KJtfG4JtRXQtoi3vcwtCthPBeynAvZTAfupgP1UwH4qYD8VsJ8K2E8F7KcC9lMB+6mA/VTAfipgPxWwnwrYz1Bb4KsEfGXAVwZ8ZXd8lT23NGBuAdxbqG0Rb/s2twDGVwHjq4DxVcD4KmB8FTC+ChhfBYyvAsZXAeOrgPFVwPgqYHwVML4KGF8FjK8CxlcB4xtqC3xlwFcGfGV3fJU9twDeL9RWQNsi3vZtbgFMtQKmWgFTrYCpVsBUK2CqFTDVCphqBUy1AqZaAVOtgKlWwFQrYKoVMNUKmGoFTLUCploBUx1pa8BXBnxld3yVPbdUYG4BLLkCllwBS66AJVfAkitgyRWw5ApYcgUsuQKWXAFLroAlV8CSK2DJFbDkClhyBSy5ApZcAUuugCVXwJIrYMkVsOShtsBXb/MC4NAVcOgKOHQFHLoCDl0Bh66AQ1fAoSvg0BVw6Ao4dAUcugIOXQGHroBDV8ChK+DQFXDoCjh0BRy6Ag5dAYeugENXwKEr4NAVcOgKOHQFHLoCDl0Bh66AQ1fAoSvg0BVw6Ao4dAUcugIOXQGHroBDV8ChK+DQFXDoCjh0BRy6Ag5dAYeugENXwKEr4NAVcOgKOHQFHLoCDl0Bh66AQ1fAoSvg0BVw6Ao4dAUcugIOXQGHroBDV8ChK+DQFXDoCjh0BRy6Ag5dAYeugENXwKEr4NAVcOgKOHQFHLoCDl0Bh66AQ1fAoSvg0BVw6Ao4dAUcugIOXQGHroBDV8ChK+DQFXDoCjh0BRy6Ag5dAYeugENXwKEr4NAVcOgKOHQFHLoCDl0Bh66AQw/l2Es/A4ZcAUOugCFXwJArYMgVMOQKGHIFDLkChlwBQ66AIVfAkCtgyBUw5AoYcgUMuQKGXAFDroAhV8CQK2DIFTDkChhyBQy5AoY8lGMv/Qz4bwX8twL+WwH/rYD/VsB/K+C/FfDfCvhvBfy3Av5bAf+tgP9WwH8r4L8V8N8K+G8F/LcC/lsB/62A/1bAfyvgvxXw3wr471CO/d7PAthtAey2AHZbALstgN0WwG4LYLcFsNsC2G0B7LYAdlsAuy2A3RbAbgtgtwWw2wLYbQHstgB2WwC7LYDdFsBuC2C3BbDbAtjtUI699DPgrgVw1wK4awHctQDuWgB3LYC7FsBdC+CuBXDXArhrAdy1AO5aAHctgLsWwF0L4K4FcNcCuGsB3LUA7loAdy2AuxbAXQvgrkM59tLPgJkWwEwLYKYFMNMCmGkBzLQAZloAMy2AmRbATAtgpgUw0wKYaQHMtABmWgAzLYCZFsBMC2CmBTDTAphpAcy0AGZaADMtgJkO5dhLPwPeWQDvLIB3FsA7C+CdBfDOAnhnAbyzAN5ZAO8sgHcWwDsL4J0F8M4CeGcBvLMA3lkA7yyAdxbAOwvgnQXwzgJ4ZwG8swDeWQDvLIB3FsA7C+CdBfDOAnhnAbyzAN5ZAO8sgHcWwDsL4J0F8M4CeGcBvLMA3lkA7yyAdxbAOwvgnQXwzgJ4ZwG8swDeWQDvLIB3FsA7C+CdBfDOAnhnAbyzAN5ZAO8sgHcWwDsL4J0F8M4CeGcBvLMA3lkA7yyAdxbAOwvgnQXwzgJ4ZwG8swDeWQDvLIB3FsA7C+CdBfDOAnhnAbyzAN5ZAO8sgHcWwDsL4J0F8M4CeGcBvLMA3lkA7yyAdxbAOwvgnQXwzgJ4ZwG8swDeWQDvLIB3FsA7C+CdBfDOAnhnAbyzAN5ZAO8sgHcWwDsL4J0F8M4CeGcBvLMA3lkA7yyAdxbAOwvgnQXwzgJ4ZwG8swDeWQDvLIB3FsA7C+CdBfDOAnhnAbyzAN4ZjX3AtApgWgUwrQKYVgFMqwCmVQDTKoBpFcC0CmBaBTCtAphWAUyrAKZVAFcugB8UwA8K4AcF8IMC+EEB/KAAflAAPyiAHxTADwrgBwXwgwL4QQH8oACGF6BagNQCoBbgtACmBSgtAGkBRgsgWoDQAoAW4LMAngXoLABIAg4GYDCAggEQDGBgAAIDCBgAOIE6dlDGDqrYQRE7qGEHJeyggn2k6S/z2erYPfd/+3n90u32q81xNp/91u0PZ7Gy0ja1bdmItW2Rvn37X3E4I2c=
I haven't been able to replicate this; it runs out of water given long enough for me. Maybe you've got another mod installed that's affecting things somehow?
If you can't replicate it, I wouldn't worry too much. I just mentioned it because I thought it was odd. Not gonna paste the settings file. I don't recommend looking into it beyond this post.
{
"mods":
[
{
"name": "base",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "elevated-rails",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "quality",
"enabled": false
},
{
"name": "space-age",
"enabled": false
},
{
"name": "5dim_automation",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "5dim_battlefield",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "5dim_compatibility",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "5dim_core",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "5dim_nuclear",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "5dim_resources",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "248k-Redux",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "248k-Redux-graphics",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "248k-Redux-train-graphics",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "aai-containers",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "aai-industry",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "aai-signal-transmission",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Adjustable-Inventory-Size",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "advanced-centrifuge",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "alien-biomes",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "alien-biomes-graphics",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "all-the-overhaul-modpack",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Bio_Industries_2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bismuth",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "boblibrary",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "BrassTacks-Updated",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "BrimStuff-Updated",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bz-dsr-bridge",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bzaluminum2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bzcarbon2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bzchlorine2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bzfoundry2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bzgas2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bzgold2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bzlead2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bzlib",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bzsilicon2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bztin2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bztitanium2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bztungsten2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "bzzirconium2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "ChangeInserterDropLane",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "ChemistryForYou2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Chromium2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Cobalt2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "DoubleWagons",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "dredgeworks",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "dredgeworks-graphics",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "flib",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "GasGasGases2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "grappling-gun",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "IfNickel-Updated",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Indium2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "informatron",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "IntermediatesForYou2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "jalm",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "jetpack",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Krastorio2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Krastorio2Assets",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Krastorio2MenuSimulations",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "kry_stdlib",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "LasingAround-Updated",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Limestone2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "manganese",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "MDbobelectronics2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "MetalsForYou2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "mini-machines",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "mini-micro-settings",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "More_Repair_Packs",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Nylon2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "robot_attrition",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "rusty-locale",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "se-landfill-le",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "se-space-trains",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "se_mod_resource_spawner",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "shield-projector",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "solar-productivity",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "space-exploration",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "space-exploration-graphics",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "space-exploration-graphics-2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "space-exploration-graphics-3",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "space-exploration-graphics-4",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "space-exploration-graphics-5",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "space-exploration-menu-simulations",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "space-exploration-pipes-n-belts-new",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "space-exploration-postprocess",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "spaceexplorationdatachipaugmenter",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "Tantalite2",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "ThemTharHills-Updated",
"enabled": true
},
{
"name": "WipMod_TA-miners",
"enabled": true
}
]
}
I passed this on to the SE discord, and Quezler said they'd need a save.
Okay. That's a big ask. I mean I can do it, but relative to the world at large I have shitty internet and don't know where to put 1/3 of a GB. That's just for the save file. And I don't have that exact save, I'd probably need to say here's the blueprint and give them my second to last save and modlist and say that tech needs to be researched in order to build it
I don't know what you did to test it. Can you give me an indication; suppose I'm wrong and it did eat one ice, over the course of visiting maybe 12 stars. And I have somehow seen levels rise as the steam to water ratio fell. I want to confirm that my extraordinary claim isn't because I am extraordinarily dumb. Though it did seem to rise each time on the three forays I took in it.
When you say that it was consuming water, do you mean fast enough to take from the chest? More than a stack of ice in the time you tested it?
If you delete unnecessary surfaces (anywhere but where you have the ship parked and Nauvis), that'll cut down on the save file size significantly. I'm assuming you haven't deconstructed the ship or anything like that. A save from before building it is less likely to be useful.
When you say that it was consuming water, do you mean fast enough to take from the chest? More than a stack of ice in the time you tested it?
I removed the ice from the chest after the initial topup to make sure more water didn't enter the system that way. Though I don't think that should matter. The only way that much water should be entering from the boiler is if the wire going to the tank got disconnected, which would produce other very obvious problems.
I did notice that there is a spike in water in the system between the time when the reactor temperature drops too low for the heat exchangers and when the accumulators drop low enough that more fuel is fed. But it's not nearly enough to get up to 8.4k.
Okay. I'll reconfirm my findings, and figure out a place to upload the save. Gonna be a while, my life just got busy for the next 2 weeks.
What does someone need to be able to sync my mod list correctly? I can't upload the mod folder, that's over a GB.
Unless you've unzipped and modified some of your mods, all that's needed is the save itself.
(If you have modified any mods, I would recommend retesting with only versions direct from the mod portal.)
I'd also suggest trying it both with and without ice in the chest. I don't think your setup could be overfeeding ice normally, but if something has allowed a larger than expected amount of steam to be able to build up in the system, that could produce the same apparent effect and maybe still point to an issue that needs fixing.
I have confirmed that I had 232 ice jammed into the boiler, and 232 ice remained in the boiler.
OK I got it down to 111MB. Can you recommend a place I can upload it? If this is something you have done recently, you would have a better idea than I.
I'll put the link here after, as the SE page here is locked. You'll have to pass it on. Discord is still blacklisted.
A lot of people use google drive. You just have to double-check that you've made the link usable by everyone; I haven't needed to do that myself so I don't know the exact steps involved.
To share a Google Drive file via link, right-click the file (or tap the three dots) and select Share. Under General Access, change "Restricted" to "Anyone with the link". Set their permission to Viewer, Commenter, or Editor, then click Copy link.
(Copied from Google by searching "share Google Drive with link").
This is, of course, assuming you are still doing this and have a Google Account.
To share a Google Drive file via link, right-click the file (or tap the three dots) and select Share. Under General Access, change "Restricted" to "Anyone with the link". Set their permission to Viewer, Commenter, or Editor, then click Copy link.
(Copied from Google by searching "share Google Drive with link").This is, of course, assuming you are still doing this and have a Google Account.
I don't - and I will. Sorry, completely forgot about this one. I have the file. I'll try and do it tomorrow as I'm not working. And whatever I use, I'll put the link here
This is, of course, assuming you are still doing this
Stuff came up. Anyway, here you go. Let me know if any questions.
@Aricitic
Curious if you found anything?
So, obviously I have updated some mods since I first found this issue. I am still using the same ship though, for now.
It really seems to have errant behavior. It IS now perhaps using water. But, it used precisely one ice for two return trips from Nauvis orbit to Calidius Asteroid Belt 2. Which resulted in 6 used fuel cells of 40GJ each. By my count, that is equivalent to exactly 4,000,000 steam (15-415 deg C, assuming I understand how it calculates steam energy correctly - but at least 3/4 of this), which corresponds to 400,000 water. Of which 99% will be returned. Hence usage of 4000 water.
There is not room in the tank for that much water and steam to have there initially and now be gone, and one ice is 100 water. So even if it changed from net positive to net negative, it is still substantially under-calculating water usage
I spent some time experimenting with it after you posted the save, but was unable to get it to display any net-positive water behavior. I wasn't looking closely enough to spot any possible underconsumption though.
It may be a moot point either way. The condenser turbine has been reworked for 2.1, and based on a comment from stringweasel there probably aren't going to be any more SE updates on 2.0.
I spent some time experimenting with it after you posted the save, but was unable to get it to display any net-positive water behavior. I wasn't looking closely enough to spot any possible underconsumption though.
It may be a moot point either way. The condenser turbine has been reworked for 2.1, and based on a comment from stringweasel there probably aren't going to be any more SE updates on 2.0.
Not a problem - it isn't game breaking for me. It means that my ice chest which should be enough water for a trip to every star will still be enough for a trip to every star, but now it will be full.
This topic got off track. Returning to the OP,
If there are no plans to add a heat exchanger then so be it, but I'm going to triple down on the need for one. Now I have unlocked most of the power production I can see that the integration problems between the mods is even more lacking for this missing entity. None of the heat exchangers, turbines, power/heat generation facilities play nice together without it. Some have minimum temps which make mix and match impossible. Some have integrated heat exchangers which make mix and match impossible. A bunch more things I could list out. But two changes would fix almost everything - as much as seems possible without the mod authors getting together and deciding to rewrite their mods for inter-compatibility.
Those are 1) a heat exchanger for 1000C
2) Remove the resource "critical steam" @1500C from the liquid lead heat exchanger and big turbine, and make them just steam at 1500C
2b)Maybe allow the big turbine to use steam @1620C so that it can be paired with the fusion reactor, though this is redundant and we can just use the advanced turbine instead
2) Remove the resource "critical steam" @1500C from the liquid lead heat exchanger and big turbine, and make them just steam at 1500C
This would be a significant nerf - critical steam through a big turbine produces nearly twice as much energy as 1500C steam through the advanced steam turbine. Also, that would be changing the character of the mod in a way I'm not comfortable with.
1) a heat exchanger for 1000C
It's not clear what you would expect to use this with - I can't find a turbine that uses steam around that temperature. (Or 975C steam for that matter, as produced by one of the liquid lead heat exchanger recipes.)
The thing is, the philosophy for integrating power production in this mod (as I understand it) is that it gets better as you advance up the tech tree. This has rough patches that I think need smoothing over, but it's the general idea. None of the parts that were not designed to go together can be expected to go together; no effort has been spent on making them do so and trying is rather out of scope, particularly for a pack that is largely in maintenance mode at this point.
There is no way to fit anything except a fission reactor in a ship until deep space science. The reactor can do 1000C, the heat pipes can do 1000C, the condenser turbine can do 1000C (and the advanced one seems to be better and offer a better footprint) but the heat exchanger cannot do 1000C. Hence many are needed to also feed into many condenser turbines, because the minimum temperature on the advanced condenser turbine will not operate at 415C.
It would also allow for a multitude of other setups including what I want to do, but can't, which is fission to bootstrap fusion in the void, without having a mess of different parts on the water system. I could just do advanced turbines. And if and when I stuff up and have a blackout, they could operate at 1000C off the fusion plants until I bootstrap the fusion power again. The obtuse problem here is that instead of giving us multiple options, we have instead been somewhat railroaded into needing to use all the options in parallel. When the buildings ostensibly do the same thing. Fair enough if we choose to install these mods separately, not so much when this is a modpack which is supposed to integrate them...
Goes back to test save
Huh. The condenser turbine gets about 50% more power from 975C steam than the standard steam turbine does, that's peculiar. Though I believe that still represents a significant loss in efficiency.
I don't know. The entities you mention all come from K2SE and this just sounds like K2SE's base situation, not something that really depends on anything special ATOM throws into the mix. Given that, I've pretty much got to think it's working as intended. (But 248k's fusion reactors don't change the calculus much, since they're about as big as the K2 fusion reactor and then you have to fool with liquid lead.)
You definitely wouldn't want an actual 1000C heat exchanger, because even right next to the reactor it could only get up to 999C. 950C would be enough for your purposes anyway. I'm not aware of a mod that has one of those, at least not without being part of a broader rework of power. Maybe I'll cadge one together when I've got some free time. But I remain disinclined to try to put it directly into ATOM.
Yeah, I was rounding to 1000C. I was thinking 975, but 950 probably works fine too. There is the heat loss of 1C per heat pipe to consider and the minimum temp of the advanced turbine to clear.
While I understand your reasons for not wanting to change critical steam, the fact it is a separate resource means I'm largely uninterested in ever using the big turbine. It doesn't have a condenser version. And if you have access to free water, you have footprint. If you don't have access to free water, you may or may not have footprint.
I never played K2SE, because I was never interested in K2, because I don't like several aspects of it. Though I didn't and am still not complaining that it made it into an "all the other modpacks" mod.
If power is intended to get better and easier as you progress, then the high temperature heat exchanger could be gated in the same science as the advanced turbine. Another advantage which this would give in footprint, assuming it uses water at the same rate, would be to halve the number of exchangers needed. My spaceship currently has 6 exchangers jammed around a single reactor. Even with no bonuses this isn't enough to run it at 100%. What I propose would be much closer to allowing that, at something like 135MW instead of 60MW.
There is no way to fit 200MW of heat exchangers into a ship pre-deep space science, let alone 200MW of condenser turbines. You could get 2 advanced condensers into a ship, I think. It is still a big step down from antimatter, which it unlocked with deep space science.