A methodical overhaul of tradeoffs—tempting power spikes, accumulating cost. Choose chains by their by-products; context-sensitive logistics. [Data integrity: shattered] [Packet cohesion: hallucinatory] [Cognition Anchor: disconnected] ☒ SYSTEM SPEAKS You aren't chosen. You will love your captor and call it progress. ☒ OBSERVATION You are not a player. You are the interface. ☒ FINAL NOTICE You are now property of the Epoch Engine. Welcome to Exotic Industries.
Large total conversion mods.
New places to build more factories.
Transportation of the player, be it vehicles or teleporters.
Augmented or new ways of transporting materials - belts, inserters, pipes!
Trains are great, but what if they could do even more?
New ways to deal with enemies, be it attack or defense.
Armors or armor equipment.
Changes to enemies or entirely new enemies to deal with.
Map generation and terrain modification.
New Ores and resources as well as machines.
Things related to oil and other fluids.
Related to roboports and logistic robots.
Entities which interact with the circuit network.
Furnaces, assembling machines, production chains.
Changes to power production and distribution.
More than just chests.
General mod impressions
I finally finished this mod (GoF link - https://factorio.com/galaxy/Quantum%20II:%20Delta7-2.A6Z3), and it was quite a challenge. It took almost a year and 500+ hours of game time (and like 750+ hours of real time…). So, I have a few things I want to share about it.
Generally, I think an idea is solid, ages do complement each other and their rewards are substantial. I think this mod has quite a few interesting mechanics, like fission and fusion power overhauls, asteroids processing for production of space data, and so on. Incentive and tools for building larger bases is interesting as well. Power was an interesting challenge as well, given this mod both is incredibly power-hungry and quite rich in ways of producing power. Final challenge of unlocking black hole power to feed this hunger is cool as well. Custom music certainly added some charm to the whole thing. However, I also think current state of this mod has plenty of problems which do take away from experience.
Firstly, it has quite weak connection to the rest of planets. Basically, it has age-based science packs up to computer age anywhere (which means mostly Nauvis), then alien and quantum age on Gaia (with cosmic in the middle), and then exotic age on Gaia as well. Basically, it converges to “move to Gaia and do the rest there”. The only advantage of Nauvis is ability to use biolabs (and cheap nutrients, but that requires shipments from Gleba), but they cannot be used for exotic age, so it could be left completely. I didn’t bother with that (mostly to my detriment), but it does seem like the best solution.
You kind of need SA planets for exotic age (to unlock shattered planet), but mostly they feel like side quests. They don’t have most of needed resources, so there isn’t much to do there but produce small amounts of science packs and special buildings (which are useful, but too power-hungry at the start and too weak at the finish). I haven’t even dealt with gold extraction on Gleba and Vulcanus, it was just easier to ship few rocket parts and limit planets to essentials. However, I build a relatively large base on Fulgora to produce these parts, but mostly because I wanted chaotic railways, it wasn’t the best… Aquilo is even less relevant, because its ‘dense plasma’ power is kinda underwhelming compared to this mod hunger for GWs, cryoplants are just worse advanced chemical plants, and I didn’t even need railguns to deal with huge asteroids! Also, lithium-based batteries are hilarious, since lithium is so much more trouble to get than basic metals… And all of those have unlocks that are completely disconnected from their resources, like needing biter eggs to unlock productivity modules which are produced without those…
Secondly, despite this mod focus on large production and sizable bases, it is very UPS-unfriendly (and this is how playtime is so much larger than gametime…). Every planet has enemies and pollution? UPS suffers! Tons of new asteroids? UPS suffers! Misfires? UPS suffers! IPL? UPS suffers! Also, I got some insane spikes on mod itself closer to the end, like hundreds of ms. Maybe, beacon or insulated pipes recompute? If it was spread out, it would have been more manageable, but such horrid drops were quite annoying. It the end I just wiped out everything alive on every planet (long-ranged rocket artillery turrets without ability to spawn chunks is amazing) only to preserve UPS, but I still needed plenty to use thousands of scrubbers to ensure new chunks are not generated…
Thirdly, it has plenty of strange balance choices (or exploits). For example, I finished my black hole research with like 125 science packs, despite its full cost of ~2500, due to insane productivity bonuses from legendary beacons with legendary productivity modules. And I got those with like ~600% quality, which is sufficient to make legendary items to be like 4 times more expensive than normal. And there is a lot of such stuff. Metalworks+smelter combo to produce metals out of thin air (I didn’t bother with steel on planets due to its efficiency), acidthrowers with hydrofluoric acid just annihilating huge asteroids (and others as well, although they had a hard time to target small ones), exotic matter being almost free (I made like 1 trip of 100k km to shattered planets, and it was sufficient for the rest of the game, I didn’t even need to use particle accelerators to turn ‘down’ into ‘up’; also, ‘down’ is not used, why there is a recipe to get it from up?), some unlocks being unreasonably late (advanced crusher in quantum age, why?) or soon (gate is too power-hungry for alien age…). I will place all of my grievances closer to the end.
Fourthly, it got a lot of junk. Gates (and, formerly, induction cores) are not placeable in remote view, beacons can be rotated only in person, fusion (and fission) reactors eating coolant on changing recipes, warp beacon being broken (throws error on placing), weird dependencies (like unlocking quality module much earlier than core it needs), and so on. As well, I will include a list of those in the end, they weren’t gamebreaking, but quite annoying regardless.
Generally, I would say this mod requires plenty of polish to reach its potential. I had fun, plenty of challenges and mechanics were interesting, but constantly tripping over UPS, junk and useless recipes was annoying.
So, to the balance, without any particular order:
- Fulgora robots (including on Gaia) need completely pitiful amount of pollution of spawn. Like, 50 pollution for fifth tier, with stats like several behemoth biters? I got hundreds of them per minute before I placed tons of scrubbers, and despite acidthrowers annihilating them in moments, they annihilated my UPS just as much. Scrubbers aren’t free UPS-wise either…
- I still don’t get why exotic age science couldn’t be used in biolabs, it makes them kinda skippable. Feeding them with nutrients is interesting, but currently Nauvis exists only to being left behind.
- Neodymium is a bit bizarre. Since it is on Gaia as well (albeit not immediately), it is hardly needed to be extracted from Nauvis. Also, the fact that metalworks recipe is much more productive than chain of several steps from crushing (at least, before tons of productivity research) is hilarious.
- Bots are kinda weird. Steam bots are horrible with their crushes, normal are quickly overshadowed by obelisk and spearing, and much later advanced bots aren’t much better (transport one has less throughput than obelisk, which is funny). Also, lack of steam for steam logistic chests just drives robots insane, and accelerates steam loss… Roboports are just normal (albeit it is funny that normal bots can charge on a steam port, and vice versa), but I find advanced roboport kinda weird. Why does it have exactly the same construction area as logistic one? It just makes placing them inconvenient without adding much…
- Thorium and U-233. I kinda don’t get their point. They are much more fiddly, much worse, and still require uranium to be mined and refined. I build them, but they weren’t useful much. Uranium chain is quite interesting though, I even had an array of reactors to produce plutonium for space science pack (and tried to use it for power, but my UPS wasn’t happy). Also, HTR could be heated up with heat towers, and I am not sure it is intended (and it is much more convenient). Liquid coolant is interesting as well, being expensive, but able to be cycled continuously (but the fact it gets eaten sometimes on recipe change makes it unfeasible to use finer circuit control). Also, I find it quite funny that critical steam could be placed in a barrel. 40 GJ of power in a barrel, just like power cell for Aquilo reactor… Quite a barrel it is!
- Fusion power was interesting as well, with its cycling of containers to produce fuel. They also got problem with changing recipe eating coolant, and got quite a perplexing interaction with quality. Quality of collects just makes them more efficient, and quality of reactors makes them take more fuel to charge same number of canisters. On same level of quality this is irrelevant, but funnily enough, using normal reactors with legendary collectors allows for good fuel production. Although, such diversity of fuels is simply unneeded. Helium does not exist, lithium is available almost as soon as deuterium and tritium, and tritium just outclasses everything else by much, being available from just water (which is needed anyways to produce steam using coolant).
- Crystal accumulators are weird. They give basically free energy on Gaia (15 MW for a solar panel space is very good), and are completely useless everywhere else. There was something about quality in informatron, but I haven’t tried to deal with it, and without it they are able to give without breaking 60 MW per surface which is hardly anything in this mod.
- Steel is kinda weird. It starts up quite expensive, but quickly becomes very cheap, cheaper than iron. And considering ability to cycle it, and bonus productivity it has in casters, normal recipes are just not needed at all, at least past some point. It was somewhat fixed (when I started, steel was cheaper in the basic recipe than in ‘advanced’ recipes), but still remains much too cheap.
- Yeah, metals could be cycled through caster (or foundry)->metalworks->smelter loop. It is quite power-hungry, but it is basically free resources, especially for steel. I don’t think it is intentional. Oils could be cycled too, but it is available much later, with insane productivity given by legendary high-tier productivity modules in legendary beacons, and it takes water as well, so it is less important…
- Scrubbers do appear balanced to me (being very annoying with their medium distillate requirements, but less annoying than dealing with enemies), although they have a bizarre interaction with quality: quality filters are almost useless (like, why would you need quality ash?), but quality scrubbers just scrub more pollution for same number of filters. Also, with how small an impact they have with hardly any ability to increase it (beside quality), it is required to place tons of them, which is not UPS friendly. Alternative is to deal with tons of enemies, which is even worse.
- Explosive biters are a menace. They brough about more trouble than every other enemy combined. It’s not that they explode, it’s not that they are immune to fire (why?), acid (why?) and almost immune to explosives (probably to avoid chain reactions, but still). It’s explosive spitters with their fire shots. For some reason, they place an enormous DoT effect on turrets that persists even after their death. One flaming spit is enough to destroy several turrets! Wiping them out was quite an ordeal, with necessity to control spindertrons very carefully. And they are immune to nukes as well! Monsters… The rest of biters was manageable, albeit it is funny how non-threatening normal biters seemed after all that.
- This mod’s special asteroids are kinda useless. They are needed to make space data, but most of their products are to throw away without much care (albeit I used couple of them, like biomass and fish). Probably they could be used to build something significant in space, but there is hardly any need, space is inconvenient, does not allow much recipes (why I can’t turn wood into charcoal in space? It would have been funny to use that for coke and liquify it into oil…), and hardly have anything unique. However, most of new asteroids at least could produce something potentially useful, meanwhile scrap ones are completely laughable, they bring about one scrap of returns, which is nothing compared to, for example, metallic ones. If just making them spitting like 20 scrap seems too easy, maybe it is a good idea to at least buff their returns.
- Poor ore is an interesting idea, but it mostly becomes completely irrelevant once deep drills become available (oxidizer recipe in space is just hilarious, because there is no way to get them in space). As well, stone was quite scarce for plenty of time, making me deal with plenty of ways to get it as a byproduct (with slag, sulfuric chunks crushing and so on), which was interesting, but once I got excavators it became non-issue as well (I played that part before surface harvesters were added). Though, requiring oil processing for advanced mining, excavators and deep pumpjacks is a neat idea, despite not needing much for them (in normal circumstances; excavators on most planets were very expensive and quite useless). Also, mining drills (except for big one from Vulcanus) are completely inferior even to much earlier quarries, which is slightly funny. Purification was interesting as well, but not quite complex.
- Auric fumaroles are just insanely small. I mean, it’s like couple of thousand of gold chunks per one! Too small to be of any actual use. It also makes advanced steam-from-acid recipe quite useless, given what nitric acid requires gold. I haven’t touched inoculation vats, but they don’t seem much better. Just sending rocket parts in is much superior to trying to do anything except science on Vulcanus or Gleba (or Fulgora for that matter), considering it is just 20% space tax.
- This mod sprinkles some collectables here and there, which seemed interesting until I understood they are worthless. Crystal accumulators are mostly useless everywhere except Gaia (and there it is craftable!), warp beacons are insanely expensive (even to repair) and don’t work (game crashes on placing one), and even if they did – their usefulness is questionable (albeit I wonder how productive I could get a lab with them… It must be in the tens of thousands percents), resonance shards are insanely rare (I got exactly one) and have too small radius of preventing expansion to be useful (their beacon side is nice, though), and that is. However, collecting flowers to start processes on Gaia was interesting… Also, it seems this mod was supposed to have more stuff around (like farstations and matter stabilizers), but I haven’t seen them.
- Gate is too power-hungry for the time it is unlocked (and some tooltips on energy costs would be nice), albeit quite useful (however, its usefulness is limited by lack of ability to replay signals between planets). And whole stress and residue things seem kind of pointless. I mean, I just placed a combinator to disable gate until it returned to starting conditions, and had no issues with that whatsoever. Also, maybe it should have lowest priority among machines, it just devours whole power network, I needed to place it in a different one and bridge them through induction matrix of small capacity and huge energy transfer rate. Inability to place them in remote limits gates usefulness as well (including the fact that they could not be placed on space platforms).
And to the junk:
- Nitrogen-fueled beacons could be rotated only in person, and with perplexing message of ‘cannot be rotated’ as well. Also, their orientation could not be set in blueprints. It is a mess.
- Warp beacon crushes the game on being placed (or repaired). Error is some kind of ‘nil’ metadata reference.
- Fluid streams for some reason are extremely laggy. Like, couple dozen acidthrowers firing generated more lag than thousands of assemblers and inserters combined!
- Mod itself generated huge spikes in processing delay from time to time, which was very annoying.
- Induction matrix core couldn’t be placed in remote, but it was fixed, allowing to use it on space platforms as well. But it requires special tiles not placeable there… Also, placing (and, especially, removing them) tiles is insanely laggy.
- Gate could not be placed in remote (although receiver can be?). Also, sometimes I could see non-existent receivers in choice of targets.
- Solar tower has broken tooltip (it shows 10x current power production in its window comparing to actual; also, it suffers from planet-based coefficient, but not occlusion from pollution…).
- I got some strange ore spawns on Nauvis, very sparse ones, they could be seen on the maps (closer to lower edge). Also, I haven’t seen any relic debris on Gaia, however it seems it got fixed (not that it is needed anyways…).
- Trains lost most settings on departure (wagon filters, interrupts, and so on), but it was already fixed.
- I got couple of IPL-related bugs, but reported them to the corresponding mod page (crush on non-item signal, and bizarre behavior followed by a crush after stack sizes were changed). Also, adding character travel from platform to platform was nice. If only it was less laggy…
- Why rockets on Gleba produce spores? Everything else (except for flesh crucibles) still produces pollution, which has no effect on Gleba at all. Also, rocket pollution is not on any graphics, which was quite annoying.
- Agricultural towers could be placed on Gaia to grow trees… But there are no tiles to grow trees! It would have been nice to use that as a way to get crushed coal for biomass (although, right not charcoal couldn’t be used for that; as well, why there is no way to get charcoal from wood in space, there are tons of it!). Also, most of tiles on Nauvis aren’t susceptible either, not sure if it is intentional.
- Some buildings stacks are insane. There are too much to write them all, but for example EM trains stack to 50 (nuclear trains stack to 5!). Some of those were fixed, but not all.
- Much of technology dependencies are strange. For example, T3 modules require planet unlock but no materials from planets, and T3 quality module requires computer core, which is available much later. And there is ton of this stuff… Wouldn’t list all of it here, but it was quite annoying sometimes to be locked out of interesting thing I just research due to random item not yet available… Some things were fixed, but certainly not all.
- Crystal accumulators are weird on Gaia. They turn into stable on placing, which is a separate item, but it does not matter, since they revert to unstable everywhere else. It just made them extra annoying to deconstruct and reconstruct. Also, I could move some handles while crystal accumulators were ghosts, like power output and capacity, and it even showed at an accumulator after placing, but had no tangible effect (it seems power output allowed to fill capacity faster). Capacity in general is completely useless, because production always outstrips discharge rate.
- Fuelwarden towers crushed the game if it was deconstructed without enough space in the inventory, but it was already fixed.
I hope my thoughts on this mod were somewhat comprehendible. I think it has plenty of good things, but it still needs polish for them not to be overshadowed by annoyances and UPS-devourers. I still had fun, but tripped every so often on another strange oversight or junk, which soured the experience. Maybe I will play some more, try some stuff, and bring more thoughts later, but certainly would not start anew.
A lot to think about. Will reply properly eventually :)
Finally getting back to this :) Between 1.3.40 and 1.3.41, several of your points have been addressed:
This covers some of the concrete issues rather than resolving all the broader balance/progression concerns or guaranteeing the UPS problems are gone.
If you would provide your save file for analysis the source of your UPS woes could be traced. Maybe at https://catbox.moe/