Making this thread so anyone who has one or two quick points of feedback that they don't feel warrant an entire dedicated thread can quickly drop their thoughts.

If you have any thoughts about the game balance, gripes, opinions or ideas, no matter how minor, I'd like to hear them. Even simple feedback is invaluable in gauging the state of the mod and guiding balance changes.

I just want you to know that your mod has made me write my own miniature Factorio simulator program so I can try to figure out an optimal setup for polymer production.

My code wasn't perfect but it was good enough to give a ballpark figure, which I could then test in-game and refine.

No spoilers but I have a setup now that produces polymer at a rate of 0.4/s per machine and while it works in an isolated test I can only hope it actually works in a real factory! It should, but... y'know.

Basically this was fun. I hate it but I enjoyed it. If that makes sense...

Sounds like my original Gleba experience, where it had me banging my head on the table for a few hours before finally it clicked and it was brilliant.

Be sure to send me the blueprint since I’m curious how you built the system.

All righty, here's the blueprint:

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

This is where my entire afternoon went XD

I just wanted to say I really like the science validation mechanic. It was new and an interesting challenge.

I really enjoy the unique challenges this mod poses to the player, especially upon reaching [ARRIVAL]. One point I'd like to make is that [SELF] becomes pretty useless for anything that isn't crystalline plate production because of the need to funnel everything into a small box to be able to build with it.

As a result, I've just completely abandoned [SELF] and started building everything on [ARRIVAL]. Also not trying to rush development at all, take your time!

There will be new space-exclusive recipes coming soon, but yeah, the hub is somewhat limiting right now. It will get better once you can build more platforms.

Not sure why, but I am frequently finding I have too much water and have to clear tanks. I haven't used the water filtration or hydrocarbon separation recipes at all.

Cargo bays would be useful, mainly because when using random selector combinators to produce stuff it's easy to go over the low stack size of the recipe (using the space platform as a manufacturing hub).

Active bio-polymers apparently have a stack size of 100, yet inserters can fit 500 in a container. What??

The 1hr decay time for active bio-polymers is annoyingly long. Surely 10m would be enough?

There is a lot of water right now,
I might look into toning it down,

Cargo bays are on my mind, but I want to do them right.

This is normal. Containers hold 5 stacks of items, but only have one slot

Active biopolymers have a 1 hour spoil time yes, but microbe cultures only take a minute. Think about what that means.

Some way of getting rid of water might be preferred. Maybe steam generators would be one method; I just used the proton-decay thing. But... it really should be acceptable to just leak water into the environment, assuming it's not frozen.

Containers hold 5 stacks of items

That wasn't obvious.

Sure, one could engineer a solution to faster-biopolymer-spoilage. But that's over-engineering when a buffer and doing-something-else-for-a-while suffices. If you really want to push people to engineer a solution here, you might need to increase it to 6h or something. The problem with the buffer-and-wait solution is that if (when) you discover an issue in your polymer supply, it takes a long time to get this fixed.

Some way of getting rid of water might be preferred.

There is a way to get rid of water, you just need to find it.

Water can be converted into hydrocarbons and organic sludge via the hydrocarbon concentration and organic sludge cultivation recipes. These two recipes together allow you shift your balance of fluids away from water.

Those 4 recipes are setup specifically so that you can convert any ratio of 3 fluids into any other ratio of 3 fluids. As long as you have some starting quantity of the three.

Working this out can be tricky but I think it’s one of the more interesting recipes in the mod. I’d be a shame to compromise it by letting players delete water automatically.

Containers hold 5 stacks of items

That wasn't obvious.

It’s in the item description, but yeah, I would like to make it more obvious. I’m thinking of making a new texture somewhat reminiscent of Minecraft barrel mods, which should help communicate their purpose.

Sure, one could engineer a solution to faster-biopolymer-spoilage. But that's over-engineering when a buffer and doing-something-else-for-a-while suffices. If you really want to push people to engineer a solution here, you might need to increase it to 6h or something. The problem with the buffer-and-wait solution is that if (when) you discover an issue in your polymer supply, it takes a long time to get this fixed.

I don’t want make the spoil time of active biopolymers much longer, because it’s already quite difficult to get their spoilage time to be under a minute when crafted, I think it would negatively impact well engineered solutions too much.

I also just don’t think that people will react differently to seeing 1 hour vs 6 hours. They either recognise an engineering problem to be solved, or something to brute force, I can’t prevent that.

I might make some subtle changes help to guide player behaviour towards engineering a solution. But brute forcers will always exist.

Water can be converted into hydrocarbons and organic sludge via the hydrocarbon concentration and organic sludge cultivation recipes. These two recipes together allow you shift your balance of fluids away from water.

My POV is why look for a complex method of getting rid of a cheap by-product? Especially when the hydrocarbon slush is so plentiful that there's no incentive to engineer a maximally-efficient design.

letting players delete water automatically.

As it happens, we can already delete water with a couple of clicks.

I also just don’t think that people will react differently to seeing 1 hour vs 6 hours. They either recognise an engineering problem to be solved, or something to brute force, I can’t prevent that.

There's a trivial way to solve that: use a belt of the right length to connect the producer and consumer of the bio-mush. The only complex part is avoiding wastage when there's enough polymer. In truth, I thought the bulk storage of biopolymer a more pleasing design due to its simplicity.

Look, this mod is like Gleba, you’re either happy to take on the new challenges, and I’ve got a lot to offer for that.

Or you aren’t, and you resist the gameplay. I you do that every step of the way, you’re not gonna like the mod.

The reality is, this mod is intentionally difficult; it's meant for the kind of player who seeks an elegant, generalised solution where there is one, but is prepared to drop their preconceptions and try something radical in the face of unexpected hurdles. Players who see brute force and ask, ask themselves, there must be a better way. players who can identify when a simple solution works, and when a more complex solution could be better.

If you want to coast through on your existing skills, I'm afraid this mod just isn't for you.

I haven't scaled it up yet but I do like the challenge of getting the microbe cultures in the machine at 1s decay time so definitely worth keeping in the mod. Also just want to say i really enjoy the sky-mall start scenario of this mod. Looking forward to more updates/challenges.

I haven't scaled it up yet but I do like the challenge of getting the microbe cultures in the machine at 1s decay time so definitely worth keeping in the mod. Also just want to say i really enjoy the sky-mall start scenario of this mod. Looking forward to more updates/challenges.

I'm glad you're enjoying it.

Hey, I wouldn't have played so far if I didn't find the mod interesting!

Waste management has never been the game's strongest point (I don't like how you're expected to use recyclers to void excess ice in SA Aquilo), but to an extent, it works as a gameplay element. Except for recyclers. And that "delete fluids" button. And the void-liquids-by-switching-recipe trick.

Have you played Nullius? That had a similar situation except that the excess fluid was chlorine and we didn't have a "delete fluid" button or recipe-switching back then.

Have you played Nullius? That had a similar situation except that the excess fluid was chlorine and we didn't have a "delete fluid" button or recipe-switching back then.

I want to play nullius but want to wait for it to update to 2.0. I definitely enjoy the concept of waste management, so nullius sounds quite cool.

I definitely wanna aim for every byproduct to still feel useful and for there to be a reasonable place to send it. I don’t want people to feel like they have to throw things away. Sometimes, waste can be acceptable option, but I want building a good byproduct management system to always feel worth it.

I want to play nullius but want to wait for it to update to 2.0. I definitely enjoy the concept of waste management, so nullius sounds quite cool.

An unofficial port has already been (afaik?) completed. I don’t really know how to point you to it other than suggesting you look in the Nullius discord server, where I’ve heard about it. And yeah, I also think Nullius is great, especially in regard to waste management. It’s the mod that showed me that sinks are always cooler and more fun than voids, and that anti-wasteful byproduct juggling can be really fun.

I don't like how you're expected to use recyclers to void excess ice in SA Aquilo

Isn’t Aquilo always in a state of excess ammonia, rather than ice? And ammonia has its own voids, either via rocket fuel or the endless ice platform cycle. And the recipe switch thing is an exploit, not an actual part of the game. If the actual ammonia voids were challenging by any stretch of the imagination, then the exploit would be considered balance breaking. But as things stand it has a pretty minimal effect on the game, which is probably why it hasn’t been patched yet.