Warptorio 2.0 (Space Age)


Build your base on a platform that warps from planet to planet and escape biters before they overwhelm you.

Overhaul
11 days ago
2.0
6.05K
Logistics Combat Enemies Environment Power

g Full playthrough feedback

13 days ago

Having finished my playthrough, I'd say that there are some things I enjoyed, but there were also a lot of rough spots, so here they are.

In the very early game, things are a bit broken. When I saw that you get a starter period, I thought this would be a good way to make the mod more accessible as many people just got squashed by Warptorio2's start. However having played it, I think the original design was better. The current way to play is to just spend umpteen hours stockpiling stuff, then you're basically just trying to roll void over and over again to do all the research you can now do with the buffered items. Some sort of grace period probably is a good idea, but I think something like a free five or ten minutes or other short fixed period would be a lot better than the current system where you are basically just doing doing nothing but buffering everything imaginable, and then spending a few more hours using it up, instead of just.. doing it.

After you're done, it's time for progression. The next pack isn't blue, but rather, agricultural. This made some sense to me, but in practice, it's really, REALLY jank. This is because you put in all the effort to sort agricultural science, but virtually everything you might want to actually unlock with it is not available because you need a bunch of the Nauvis science packs. For example, forget belt stacking or biolabs or productivity researches. The only thing you can REALLY get with it is the floor size upgrades. It feels like a lot of work for not a lot of reward. The other sciences follow a similar pattern; you make an offworld science pack, so that you can get the floor size upgrade, then you go back and make a bunch of Nauvis packs, and repeat that a few times, until you finally have enough space to get enough Nauvis packs to actually use the offworld sciences for their actual techs. This results in a huge "dead zone" in the progression where the player puts in a lot of work and doesn't feel like they really get much for it.

Whilst you're doing this, you of course need to deal with the enemies. Having biter waves just spawn and walk on water is pretty dissatisfying. You can't kill nests to prevent attacks, and there's no defensible terrain. Not resetting evolution on warp just helps the player feel like they never make progress; the next warp zone doesn't feel different to whatever you just came from. In comparison to Warptorio2, you could easily feel progress by being able to stay in each warp zone for longer. Additionally, it means that the enemies have some strange and predictable attack patterns. Looking around my platform, you can see clearly where the scripted attack points are, because the defenses located in the other points have zero or almost zero damage done, compared to a few hotspots that are extremely high.

And the drones are pretty terrible. Since they have good range compared to gun turrets, in practice it's almost impossible to stop them from doing damage until you have quite a lot of the offworld tech that comes from zones they protect. And you don't even have robots for repairing either. So you're basically just stuck running around with a repair pack, by hand, for an extended period. Even when you do have robots to repair, it's a pretty limited time until they start sending large enough waves to burst down turrets. So you're basically back to the same thought that you have to warp out fairly quick to avoid taking too much damage. But also, they honestly just don't have any interesting attributes. The only strategy is to outrange them.

Not to mention the large creatures. This is just another incentive to warp out right away until you have a bunch of Teslas. It doesn't feel like they serve any gameplay purpose. It's just telling the player they have a 20 minute autowarp timer but actually it's like 10-15 minutes until you're forced to warp out.

Speaking of Teslas, the "best" defense is a pretty boring one really. Just spam Teslas, especially once you have a couple upgrades. The only real need for anything else is for asteroid defense. Flamethrowers just aren't worth it when they are flaming your own defenses with Pentapods and the flame generally travels too slow to hit drones anyway. Gun turrets have way too short range. Lasers are nice right up until a Stomper shows up. But Tesla beats pretty much everything. This is especially true because they don't need heating on Aquilo which feels a bit weird.

During this, you're dealing with the floor sizes, which feel.. much too small. In Warptorio2 you can fit everything in in a satisfying way. Sure, you could probably just sushi everything, but honestly, this just feels.. cheap because you're using the same solution for every problem. Also even if you did sushi everything you're still dealing with a fairly miserable SPM. But as I played more, I realised the floor organisation is quite painful as well. In particular, because half of everything is on the ground floor, if you want to rebuild something, often you're rebuilding the whole damn factory. In Warptorio2 you had smelting, power, and factory separated so that you didn't need to rebuild everything so much.

Once you're finally done accumulating a few of every offworld science and not getting a lot for that, you can get the Garden floor, which was honestly.. pretty underwhelming. The description states that it is a "separate floor for garden and water needs". But in practice, this isn't really true. There's several water needs which don't really fit down there or just can't be done there, like agricultural science. The way the garden floor relates to the other floors is quite problematic too. You need to process fruit down there to recapture the seeds, but then, mash/jelly has a super short shelf life. You can ship up Bioflux but then you can't automate restarting bacteria. It feels like there aren't any really satisfying solutions. A large part of the problem is that there's no warp container on the factory floor and no belts from the factory floor to the garden, and no pipes either.

At least with logistics system you can fit everything you need on the factory floor, finally. But setting up offworld sciences (for real this time) is quite problematic. The biggest issue is that you can't rebuild stuff once you've left. You can't rebuild your platform in any zone because there's always some science where the surface restrictions prevent you from setting it up. Agricultural science is an especially big offender because you have to collect Pentapod Eggs from Gleba itself. It happened to me several times that I needed to reorganise the platform, but couldn't do it without first visiting every planet so I could just set the surface-locked recipes (or move Biolabs). Honestly, it doesn't make a lot of sense to require the player to be on that planet to start the science, but not to continue it. Fulgora's lightning collectors are also pretty bad because you can pick them up and not be able to put them back down.

I shortly realised that the smart move for each planet was to place the planet-specific machines, set the recipes, then just warp out. You could warp back to Nauvis with no drones, or on Aquilo, you warp out to where your bots work better and you don't have to care about heat. There's no genuine need to automate most of your factory on each planet. You just tank up on the planet-specific resources and then leave back to the void and wait, since you can basically always mine it faster than you can use it anyway.

The asteroid transition mechanic is pretty not fun for the player. You can't even observe it actually happening unless you happen to look in the right time and place. And you certainly can't interact with it. So it feels like the player just.. sits there and, at best, watches a cutscene every time they warp. It's a super boring mechanic that just becomes worse and worse as the timer gets longer. The only good thing to be said about it is that it makes the need to defend more interesting. But this could be achieved in a far better way by having space behave more like the other planets and let the player warp there and have the platform work as normal there, rather than having a forced space cutscene every warp.

Speaking of things you have to find out by accident, there's quite a few. For example the warp accumulator sharing circuit signals between floors isn't mentioned anywhere. There's a nice gotcha where it loses circuit connection when upgraded as well. Nor is it mentioned that you can't pick up the warp container after placing it, which is a super weird behaviour that just annoys the player until they /editor it back. The increased wagon sizes is also pretty random.

I would add a section about the warpstation, but this seems like it's clearly still under development, so let me just say that the train needs to stay in automatic mode after warping, it should probably be able to warp between any two floors, and also it would be a big improvement if the train warped to a named station on the receiving end, rather than the same location. It's really not obvious where something is on one floor compared to another.

I should also point out that the more fun features from Warptorio2 are also missing. For example, there's no loot chests, and no Warp Beacon or Warp Modules. But I understand it's early days so perhaps these are to be added.

Honestly, I had some fun, but a lot of it was just tedious and involved a lot of waiting around and dissatisfying solutions. And I especially feel like despite being labelled as an update of the 1.1 mod, there's a lot of choices which go directly against how it played, so they don't really feel that closely related at all.

13 days ago
(updated 13 days ago)

Thank you werry much for the feedback this is definitely something that I needed a lot. I will respond with numbers based on paragraphs.

  1. Yes the grace period at the start of the game is too long I agree with that. I wanted to keep things open to the player, but you can do too much. I think good solution here will probably be introducing extra enemies if you are taking longer that X

  2. I did not have any similar feelings compared to what you are presenting. I would be interested to know if you had any extra mods or changed settings as that may have affected your path. The design of this mod in this case is to make player always work on 2 sciences that work well together at the same time (each on different floor as well) gleba+blue, fulgora+yellow, vulcanus+purpole

  3. Yes there are some hot spots right now it is harder to avoid them that expected, but I am working on that. Waves are implemented to give players that do not play on deathworld something to do. For me it felt really empty when I was on default settings.

  4. Yes drones are just bad. I am removing them in 0.2.9 It was nice concept, but it is just bad. I wanted to make the recommended mods be required for more and better enemies, but people complained that it is too hard with them, so I made them recommended and added something as backup. Mod is not intended without recommended mods

  5. They actually have purpose. You can weak demolisher at the start of the game to get extra tungsten. After that they try to introduce you to "stronger enemies" to make you ready for final science

  6. Yes I agree that its too boring I wanted to lower the damage of tesla to combat this strategy, but that made things with recommended mods far amount harder. This is why "warp time" was introduced. It makes you switch your defenses to combat asteroids (tesla is useless vs asteroids). I want to make them freeze on aquilo, but that did not work yet.

  7. You have garden floor as well, but I understand where are you coming from. My goal was to make ground floor as important as possible (to avoid cheese that players used in warptorio2). Going between floors and transporting stuff between floors needs some work. I added bigger and smaller floors for people who are not happy with defaults into settings

  8. I have to disagree with this one. You can move power+sulfur+plastic+rocket fuel+bioflux+carbon+explosives and probably even more to garden floor. All of that you are getting basically for free thanks to the seeds. From my point of view garden floor is overpowered and needs to be tuned the other way around.

  9. Sadly I cant fix lighting collectors (even if I remove surface conditions for some reason) even though I would really like to. Besides that I like that aspect, because it gives you reason to go to some of the planets (for example once you have garden floor there would be no need to go gleba without this). In future I want to balance this differently, but right now I have no idea how so this is the best I can do.

  10. There is feature comming to 3.0 to combat this. Once you warp out of the planet planet specific recipes will reset to nothing. I am not sure if I will really go that route, but from first tests it is quite interesting and does change how you approach stuff by a fair amount

  11. 100% Agree with that, but it just does not work exactly how I would want it right now. This is hopefully coming soon. (There are more that few issues with it right now)

  12. Warp container are supposed to feel extremely limited. Original plan was to make sure that you cant even keep them but that did not work.

  13. Yes warp station is in early stages so it is extra janky

  14. I wanted to add those in separate mod. Just in case someone else made those things better. Part of the things behind this mod is to limit the amount of stuff it does to the minimum and then make full modpack that would introduce everything needed to make things fun

  15. Warptorio space age is closer to Warptorio 1 that Warptorio 2. My goal was to make something different enough that when the original author updates Warptorio 2 both mods would be different enough.

I have played and finished Dimensioanl Warp mod which is closer to Warptorio 2 and to be honest I do believe that it was right choice to go bit further from where we were. Now we have more options that are each different

Thank you for the feedback hopefully you had enough fun to visit this mod in future when it changes enough to be once again interesting for you

13 days ago

I haven't quite finished my playthrough but I think I have some extra feedback too regarding a few of the points.

Regading 4: I tried the recommended mods but the boss enemies are frankly just not feasible to defeat, leading to what is effectively a 13 minute warp timer. Even before reaching aquilo, I'm seeing boss biters with 180k HP and 100% laser resistance, that's just not reasonable to defend against (compared to the medium stompers I get in Vanilla, which only have 8000 HP). Maybe a different defense setup would be better, I switched mid run and my defenses were mostly setup for stompers. But their HP just seems way too high.

Regarding 5: I think using demolishers as the big enemy early on is not a good idea, because they're basically impossible to kill in the early game (without massive losses). I also agree that until you get teslas, big enemies basically means you need to warp out immediately.

Regarding 10: That change would fix one of the biggest issues I personally had with this mod, which is that it really encourages turtling and just slowly producing science on your platform. I think there needs to be more encouragement to build temporary (blueprinted) bases once you unlock bots, and I think resetting the recipes would go a long way towards doing that. It also indirectly fixes an annoying bug that resets the planet-specific recipes whenever you install or update any mod.

One last issue that wasn't brought up (aside from minor stuff like the warp container not being deliverable by bots because it doesn't show up in the items UI) is that the warp container really should transport power in addition to warping items. Having to drag power poles all the way out to your miners negates a lot of the benefit of item warping.

13 days ago
  1. I am not using small demolisher, but modified small demolishers they have basically no health and no health regen. They are supposed to look scary, but be super weak

  2. Based on your response I might back port it into 0.2.9 to make it better for you (I prefer it as well)

Extra one (warp container with power): Goal is to split the game into 4 phases Early game -> Warp chest -> Warp train -> Chest + Train + Power This way it would have nice progression and you could skip some parts. If you did not want them. But for now last part is not implemented

New response