Fluidic Power


Overhauls the power network to use the game's built-in fluid system in an attempt to make electricity more realistic. Adds working transformers for high power transmission, and creates various new and interesting power distribution challenges. Similar to the mods Flow Network and High Voltage, but significantly different by being the first mod that uses no on-tick power calculations. This means the UPS impact should be minimal for non-gigantic bases.

Content
1 year, 5 months ago
1.1
1.80K
Power

g Future of Fluidic Power after FFF416

1 year, 4 months ago

Finally, we get an update on the fluid changes for 2.0 in fff-416. I wonder if these changes will be beneficial for FP? Or does it take away the "realism" of the fluids and potentially spoils FP?

1 year, 4 months ago
(updated 1 year, 1 day ago)

Hello!

Unfortunately it doesn't look good at all and completely breaks the mechanics Fluidic Power is built on, and with the current information I will not attempt to update it to Factorio 2.0. This is kind of ironic because another 2.0 feature probably would've made FP usable in much bigger bases!

Why?

There is two things about Fluidic Power that I designed it around:
- Different voltages (still possible in 2.0)
- Flow of electricity is sumulated between poles (not possible, or at least not easily).

Let's ignore different voltages and transformers for a moment. Basically, if Fluidic Power is simply ported to 2.0, then it will function almost exactly the same as vanilla electricity. Vanilla electricity simulates your whole network as a single node that all machines can push/pull from. Then FP changed it using fluid mechanics which simulates the flow between a network of nodes. And now in 2.0, that's also optimized away to just be pushing/pulling from a single node.

Other Possibilities

Of course, it's still possible if you try hard enough. The bad option is to control it all through scripting like the old Flow Network mod, which is very UPS intensive. A possible better way is still to abuse fluids, but to achieve it now it's waaaaay more complicated. Now you need to replace every copper connection with pumps in both directions to still get some sense of flow-between-poles, wheras previously I didn't need anything special. Previously I did this, but now you'd need something like this (still needs generators instead of actual poles) :

This raises the complexity from the modding side significantly.
- You can't have multiple pipe-things on one tile, meaning this will all have to be placed on a separate hidden surface.
- Every time you place a pole you'd have to do all the complicated tricks I already do, and then place two pumps on the hidden surface for every copper wire. And update it every time a connection is changed, blueprint placed, something dies, etc. This is a lot of work with a lot of edge cases to handle.
- The pumps will always be pumping, meaning the flow of fluids will probably be even less intuitive. Does it even work in big scale? And how UPS intensive would it be?

You could also just do a simple port with the known limitations, just to use the different voltages and transformers, which would still work. For me, that's still a lot of work and hacking for such a small addition in gameplay. Personally, if I wanted different voltages in 2.0 I would rather use Power Overload, which is much more performant and easy-to-use.

Future

I honestly don't see myself delving into this. I don't have as much time as I used to, and don't have the motivation to do the dozens of hours of grueling work just to get a functioning prototype. Not even to say polishing it for gameplay, and maintaining it. If another modder wants to take over I would help where I can, and might even give them writing access to this mod-page so that it can continue with this this name.

As for now, I really liked the mod that I built. I think it was cool. Even though it didn't get many downloads at all XD.

And as for you 0n0w1c, I know you're doing a Fluidic Power K2 run and have a possible issue. I'll still add the high voltage interface (unless you're going to stop playing), but that might likely be my last update of this mod :)

1 year, 4 months ago

I am saddened by this news, FP is my favorite mod, it is remarkable. The game play is really good and I admire your ability to envision and code it.
I had been waiting for news... hoping that 2.0 might bring an electrical feature, something interesting and challenging like FP, but also feared it might break FP.
I have tried Power Overload in the past, but prefer FP, poles catching fire is just not as much fun as brown-outs.

There is no need to add the high voltage interface for me. I think 2.0 is not far off and I plan to upgrade, and don't expect to finish K2 by then. In fact, after reading the FFF, and thinking this could be the end, I stopped and re-rolled a new map with PO and waited for your reply.

1 year, 4 months ago

That's really nice to hear! Thank you :) I only had time to do one Fluidic Power playthrough myself, and I did really enjoy it as well. I think Factorio is going the right direction, but it would have been more fun than people realize to have realistic power flow.

1 year, 2 months ago
(updated 1 year, 2 months ago)

Is it possible to use the heat pipes to emulate Fluidic Power? This system won't be changed in 2.0 as far as we know. Or is it not optimized enough?

1 year, 2 months ago

Is it possible to use the heat pipes to emulate Fluidic Power? This system won't be changed in 2.0 as far as we know. Or is it not optimized enough?

That won't really work. Heat pipes are not designed to work on that scale, so not sure if the heat would even travel that far. But more important, there's no underground heat-pipe. All pole connections are underground connections.

11 months ago

Coming back to this now, I just wanna say I'm gonna miss this mod.

Hands-down my favourite mod I didn't make.

8 days ago

Taking a serious think about this and I think I can see a way that you could implement something approximating the original behavior of Fluidic Power.

While the TRUE original behavior (flow between poles) probably couldn't be easily recreated in this system, you could probably make something like it by messing around with fluid temperature and the mechanisms from Call a Plumber (mod that requires certain pipes for hot or corrosive fluids) and Underground Heat Pipe (exactly what it says on the tin).

You can introduce distribution lag by making power poles have an internal "temperature" of their own, and refuse to distribute until they're warm enough, sapping temp from the fluid in the network to warm up. The temperature checking would propagate away from supply poles. Hotter fluid will also make poles heat up faster. Machines will also work a similar way, having an internal temperature meter that requires the power they're receiving to be hot enough. Transformers heat fluid up, producing hotter and denser "high-power" fluid that will propagate over long-distance poles faster, but will also damage smaller poles using the mechanisms from Call a Plumber.

8 days ago

That sounds like requiring a fair bit of runtime scripting though, and one of the points of this mod was that it doesn't require any to make the mechanics work, just script-re/placing entities

8 days ago

Yeah, that's true... but I think the issue is that there's now not really a way to easily use existing systems to make Fluidic Power work, so if any port or update was attempted, it would have to focus on minimizing script usage since it's pretty much unavoidable now.

I think a combo of underground heat pipes, the new freezing mechanic, and fluid for actual "power transfer" would probably need only a bit to no scripting. Ideally you'd just make the power poles contain a "linked heat pipe" of sorts. Make a secret subsurface that's frozen and require the poles to be warm before transferring power. Have the supply poles produce an equal amount of power fluid as heat and use that heat to govern flow within the network.

The linked heat pipe might be tricky, but I don't think it'd be impossible, and importantly, just combining fluid with heat pipe mechanics wouldn't need much if any scripting. Otherwise you could pretty much reuse the entirety of Fluidic Power and stick the heat-as-flow system on top. Probably would need tweaking, though.

5 days ago
(updated 5 days ago)

Why would you need freezing for distribution lag? Heat pipes already have distribution lag - the thermal energy only transfers if the temperature difference is greater than 1 degree. It also seems like a bad idea to me to make the mod require DLC.

If more runtime scripting is necessary, it might be better to just start anew with a mod that already does that, such as Power Overload (2.0) or Electric Transformers (1.1), and make it more realistic.

3 days ago

Shoot, I didn't consider the DLC angle. My thought was to use the heat pipes to emulate the way Fluidic Power takes time to warm up, and then use liquids to emulate actual power transfer.

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