So I feel like something that would see good use is a thing that can provide power to machines from high voltage power.

With like 100MW limit, and only enough supply area to really power a couple machines. Like a substation with a 4x4 distribution area, so it can only power adjacent machines, and minimal wire reach so you can't use it as a normal substation that just uses high voltage directly.

The idea being, particular energy-intensive machines IRL use higher voltages, sometimes directly from the grid.

In vanilla, this would be fairly useful for a fully-beaconed rocket silo. In slightly-less-than-vanilla scenarios, this would be useful for a variety of high-power machines.

Hello!

You mean something like Power Overload's High Energy Interface?

I've thought about this, and it would be cool. But I keep getting to the idea of having to have multiple transformers with multiple substations connected to the rocket silo sounds cooler. Is there some disadvantage or use-case where this won't work? Or have you run into cases where you can't seem to deliver enough power due to the fluid mechanics?

Glad you're still playing the mod though. I always appreciate the input :)

It's more that providing power through transformers and substations is very space-intensive. And generally has bad geometry :P

With my given numbers, you just need the one 2x2 building to supply 100MW

Using substations and transformers needs you to have 2 transformers per substation, and since you can't put them on the same side, you need additional large poles to go around to provide the high voltage. It takes up so much more space.

And yes, I was running into not be able to supply enough power.

My rocket launch site using Expanded Rocket Payloads, among other things

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/888589621078929458/1229673980529479760/image.png?ex=66308a23&is=661e1523&hm=3c76778b95baff68ee933d371951a023808f00af198db3966c942b6bdb1a831c&

The silo draws 80MW, while everything else together draws somewhere in the realm of 100-120MW. I have 6 transformers hooked up around the perimeter, which should be plenty of power, yet it has a little brown-out every time the rocket launches. The silo has 4 substations that cover it, one of which is directly supplied by a transformer, and another only has 1 substation between it and a transformer, and yet another has a substation through a pump-switch that has a transformer on it.

This should be plenty of power for everything, and yet...

And of course, I have other modded things that pull a huge amount of power :D

Glad you're still playing the mod though. I always appreciate the input :)

:)

I really like it

Also here's that same image with the connection overlay

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/888589621078929458/1229677083043565631/image.png?ex=66308d06&is=661e1806&hm=98815e74a72b14c157bd4a19f977be522c8da16dda0339cba1939c5bcd492dc3&

It's more that providing power through transformers and substations is very space-intensive. And generally has bad geometry :P

Using substations and transformers needs you to have 2 transformers per substation, and since you can't put them on the same side, you need additional large poles to go around to provide the high voltage. It takes up so much more space.

Haha yeah, it requires a bit more planning. Especially with the pole connections having to be in cardenal directions only (up/down/left/right). Again though, I think this is part of idea of managing electricity more realistically. If you have a machine with massive power requirements then you need more specialized infrastructure around it, just like in real life.

That said, do you think setups like that would be easier to design if there was diagonal pole connections as well? It will be possible once Factorio 2.0 releases.

I have 6 transformers hooked up around the perimeter, which should be plenty of power, yet it has a little brown-out every time the rocket launches

I still feel this is the idea of the mod. Personally I would've put the rocket on it's own separate network, possibly with some accumulators around it. Maybe even have multiple high voltage lines. But I know you've done this before too :)

It comes down to the balance of the mod, which is hard to get right. The idea of the mod that electricity is more realistic and harder to manage, and especially with high power areas. But it shouldn't be too hard, because then it's not fun. And I'm hesitant to provide a direct high-power generator because that might make it too easy again, and completely circumvent the challenge.

I've only played this mod myself to a regular rocket launch. The highest power area was this fully-beaconed steel smelter with lazer defences. And I had to put transformers everywhere. And personally I found that quite cool. Still had brown-outs though, but I could've brought in more high-voltage lines with even more transformers I guess.

If you have a machine with massive power requirements then you need more specialized infrastructure around it, just like in real life.

Having a direct high-voltage connection is specialized infrastructure :P

That said, do you think setups like that would be easier to design if there was diagonal pole connections as well? It will be possible once Factorio 2.0 releases.

Definitely.

But I know you've done this before too :)

Lasers are hungry bois

And I'm hesitant to provide a direct high-power generator because that might make it too easy again, and completely circumvent the challenge.

So before I do my thing against this, I think I'd like to make an addition to my proposal. Minimal wire reach, so you can't use it as a drop-in replacement for normal substations. Like, you need a big pole adjacent to it to provide the power sorta minimal.

Eh... being able to power specific machines with high energy requirements doesn't seem like it would break anything? You already suggested putting that rocket silo on it's own grid, and the main thing this would do is make it easier to do that?

You wouldn't be able to power your example with this, or my laser thing, because the power usage there is spread over many machines that my proposed thing just wouldn't be able to cover reasonably. Sure you could use it to try power such things, but I think it would be way more inconvenient than just using transformers.

Back to my rocket silo, I can't control which substation the silo draws power from. So even adding more capacity doesn't fix it, because there's more than 100MW of power demand going on a single substation.

The game really isn't designed to have separate and overlapping power networks. Guess I need to move the rocket silo away :D

Speaking of high energy demands... is there a way to pump a whopping 15GW into the K2 Intergalactic Transceiver?

Hmmm, I thought it would just work, but a quick test shows that it doesn't. I will have to have a look why it doesn't work, since K2 also does some scripting behind the scenes.

Wait what? It should just work (in theory)? If my math is correct, 15GW requires 300 transformers... guess I need to think more about how that can be done.
I figured the response would be, sorry can't be done with the existing items.

No I wasn't aware of the 15GW requirement, I thought it would just charge slowly. That must be what's causing it.

You'd be limited by substations, which can provide 100MW. So 15GW / 100MW = 150 substations. You can use the K2 Substation Mk2s which has a very big supply area. But fitting 150 around it sounds a little ludicrous.

Looks like I'll have to add an high energy interface. Is this blocking you now 0n0w1c? Or are you thinking ahead?

I am looking ahead, still early game for me. I just became aware of the power need myself.
I took a look at the code, the Intergalactic Transceiver is an accumulator. It appears to me that 15GW is the minimum for operation but may need more to actually charge it.

prototype:

    energy_source = {
      type = "electric",
      buffer_capacity = "30TJ",
      usage_priority = "tertiary",
      input_flow_limit = "60GW",
      output_flow_limit = "0W",
    },

constants:

  delta = 2.5e8, -- Requires charge rate of 15 GW
  drain = 50e9,
  max_delta = 2e9,