Schall Land Mine


Greatly expands the extent of mine warfare! Adds various land mines. Currently includes incendiary land mine, anti-tank land mine, napalm land mine, poison land mine, atomic land mine. Also adds different ways for mine scattering and sweeping. (Locale: English, Deutsch, 正體中文, Português Brasileiro)

Content
7 hours ago
0.17 - 2.0
6.31K
Combat

g [Responded] Why tank platoon dependency?

4 years ago

I was so happy to find a maintained replacement for Poison'd mod (with poison mines).
But this mod requires Tank platoon! Why??? I don't mind some added items that I don't use, but it clutters my reasearch tree with wild amount of tiny techs (the same goes for Rechargeable weapons, BTW).
Can't mines exist without tanks?

4 years ago
(updated 4 years ago)

As in FAQ already pointed out:

Q: Why is this mod dependent on Schall Tank Platoon mod?
A: This mod uses the prototypes related to new ammo (incendiary rocket, napalm bomb) from it, just adopting them on the land mines. Also it is logical to set prerequisite on that mod.

I do not want to place the same piece of prototype code in three (or more) mods. Maintaining same piece of code in multiple mods is not fun at all (and is bug prone). Setting dependencies is the reasonable choice.

Also in tech research sense, now I have napalm / poison warhead in three separate mods (Tank Platoon, Artillery, Land Mine).
Logically, two of them are just derivative uses of a first one, which should be achieved with much smaller cost (e.g., to develop a poison land mine, when one already knows how to create a poison warhead/bomb). Making them as three independent research with full costs (research from anew) do not make sense.
Making the three tech of the same type of warhead having optional dependency / conditional changes on each other in tech prerequisite and tech costs would be a nightmare (and bug prone).
Considering tanks are the popular choices among the three weapon systems, my solution is to use Tank Platoon as my "core" mod, and let others having dependency on it.

I have another solution to make the three mods independent of each other. That is to make a new "core" mod to place the "warheads" tech to it. The rockets (bombs), artillery shells, land mines would be all (and just) descendants of the core tech. But I wonder if you would like this solution at all, since it will create a new layer of "tiny" warhead techs.
Honestly I do not like this solution. Because players who use Tank Platoon will find this extra set of unnecessary "tiny" tech (compared to current version). There does not exist a solution that could please players of every choices.

For the "wild" number of "tiny" tech, what could be a better solution?
In Rechargeable weapons, now I have separate tech for each gun (6 in total). Unlocking multiple guns in one single tech could be a bit too powerful?
In Tank Platoon, the amount is mainly contributed from each tank tier (light/medium/...) and upgrade (MK1/MK2). Turning off MK1 and MK2 can cut the number by 2/3, which I think is already the necessary minimal. I cannot imagine of a good way to further compress that, without breaking compatibility with other mods (say, the new autocannon and cannon shells for turrets in Ammo Turrets).

4 years ago
(updated 4 years ago)

Is the shared part of code that huge, that it requires an entire mod (platoon or core) as an absoulte dependency? Can't this code be copied into weapon implementing mods?

Unlocking multiple guns in one single tech could be a bit too powerful?

As a common player I would expect new weapons to be added to existing techs. For example: a chainsaw could easily be researched within the same tech as a common shotgun (it's an early weapon); most laser weapons could perfectly fit the same tech as laser turrets, etc.
The same goes for tanks. A couple of new technologies for tanks (that you cannot integrate into existing Tanks tech node), and a couple for upgrades - that's 4, that's acceptable... but a whole new tree is too much. Compare that with vanilla miners tech -- the game developers united them into fewer more powerful and costly researches.

It's just my opinion and feedback. I appreciate your work even if you don't use any of my input.

4 years ago
(updated 4 years ago)

Shared code is just the first reason. As mentioned above, proper tech cost (3 full vs first full+derivatives) and tech tree order is the headache part which is very complicated for three mods (could be more in future).

Putting in laser-related tech could be a headache though, since there are not much such techs exist in vanilla, if without using embedding into different levels of damage or shooting speed upgrades.
Other mods (especially overhauls) may postpone or change the availability of damage / shooting speed upgrades, so could disrupt the time / order of what I expected. This is a strong reason why I hesitated to do that. Putting into brand new tech make things easy and simple to maintain.
I may revise putting recharging weapons into vanilla tech when I have time. Could be an option switching those weapons to be embedded into vanilla tech.

But for tanks it's not that easy. Finding suitable techs to fit all light and medium tanks are difficult enough.
Heavy tanks are something needing dedicated research, not byproducts or "gifts" from other tech. IRL only a few countries had that tech and skills and built them. Even in modern days, heavy vehicles (including ships) manufacturing are exclusive to the strong industrious nations.
Super-heavy tanks are even more demanding. In WWII only Germany did that (others were never ready to be sent to combat). They have spent huge effort yet only 2+1 are built. Post-war only 2 are built by US, that's all. Definitely should be a very expensive and independent tech.
From the mod design aspect, I prefer the tanks tech in the same style. If super-heavy and heavy tanks are as standalone tech, it would be rather strange looking (for me and for other players) that light and medium tanks were to be embedded into irrelevant vanilla tech.

4 years ago

the tank platoon mod is the one thats bugging me too.... i kinda get why, BUT wouldn't it be more handy/commen to just put the "shared codes" in a library mod instead as a dependency?

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