Improves the enemies tactics by using potential fields (pheromones) allowing probing of defenses, retreats, reinforcements, counterattacking, breaching, raids, rallying death cry, and player hunting. Uses blockable biter projectiles. Adds new Enemies which can be disabled in mod settings. Difficulty setting in mod options menu.
Mods introducing new content into the game.
Changes to enemies or entirely new enemies to deal with.
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I can confirm this, running latest version too with 1.0 Factorio. I've been playing for 62 hours and I have seen them expand twice after I disabled AI migration but thats it, and it took them like 2 hours. From my experience it seems like they are sending expansion party but they just get stuck, seen multiple groups just standing and doing nothing, or it could be bugged attacks, not sure.
Confirmed :-(
The only activity is attacks from outside pollution zone. All Rampant map options are on. Fresh game created in Factorio 1.0 with actual mod version. Turned on new enemies. Didn't try without them.
well In my current game they just expanded up to my walls and ive never seen this before
well In my current game they just expanded up to my walls and ive never seen this before
That's great. I've started a new map without Rampant mod. Biters created three new bases. After I purged them and some border ones I don't see any expanding. Probably the problem is with some other mod. I don't know how to find the root cause of this problem... don't want to try maps with each mod one by one.
Was this mod ever updated for 1.0? Seems like this problem might be because 1.0?
I don't know for now. I turned it off and tried Natural Evolution Enemies (added double difficulty factor in it) + Bobs enemies instead -> made things even worse as these mods don't challenge with out of pollution zone attacks. And biters expand way too slow on under 30% evolution level - feels like playing Peaceful mod. I returned to Rampant, testing more... at least Rampant smart expansion works (but too slow). See another thread in K2 about slow evo. Also I added Creeper mod, but not sure it helps with possibly no creep (see another thread here) - still testing as I need far away expansion, not slow sieging.
Also I suspect Alien Biome mod to hurt expansion after factorio 1.0 vanilla changes, but not sure (probably wrong idea).
The bitters won't expand but the actual logic behind individual bitters seems to work fine. Using the debug menu I can see the bitters try to expand, the green circles blinking, however no expansion party is sent and no base gets built.
That's vanilla expansion showed by those green blinking circles, not Rampant's Migration/Siege smart expansion. It's less efficient and absolutely useless with new enemies mode, so don't look at it. Check biters evolution level and Enemy settings for your map save.
Yes, definitely spawners expansion in free space doesn't work anymore in any form. Tried with and without Krastorio2. Tried with new enemies and without. Not sure about Sieging expansions - difficult to check without several days of playing, starting from scratch. On old saves all those biters groups attack my base instead of sieging.
What I haven't tried yet - Rampant + RA without any other mods (AlienBiomes and Armoured Biters are always On) on fresh map (I used last Winter game saves from 0.18 - is it bad, didn't find any warnings in changelogs for Rampant or vanilla Factorio?).
It seems to me that something not good happened in general with pathfinding in Factorio. Too much strange pathfinding happens. Biters expansion in vanilla (wo Rampant) finishes successfully only in 20% or less (depending on the map). Or maybe that's just because I didn't have to watch it in debug mode so much time and didn't know that biters invasions fail so often :-).
I was not sure, that my map settings are correct and biters do really have places and paths to build new nests. To clarify things I took one map seed and played some time in two modes (Factorio1.0 release):
1. Rampant(version18.17)+RA+AlienBiomes+ArmouredBiters in normal world
2. AlienBiomes+ArmouredBiters+BobEnemies in deathworld+techmarathon (to create some challenge if I have to abandon Rampant mod till fix)
Reached the stage with some red+green tech stability. Destroyed nests in pollution vicinity. Got about 20..25% Evo level. No new nests in both gameplays (checked in Debug mode) - supposed some general problems in core game engine. Created a savegame. Put gun turrets around the base and stopped doing anything - only watching from this moment.
Then used these two commands to see the biters quickly populating the world in Debug mode:
/c game.map_settings.enemy_expansion.min_expansion_cooldown = 3600
/c game.map_settings.enemy_expansion.max_expansion_cooldown = 7000
Results:
1. In Rampant game biters didn't settle anywhere but converted into attackers squads (5..8 groups actively moving all the time) and were easily destroyed by turrets. Turning off RaidingAI and SiegeAI didn't help - they all still forgot about building nests and attacked the turrets.
2. In deathworld vanilla game (yes, bobenemies and armouredbiters are easy vanilla at this evo level) biters settled in the middle of pollution cloud, quickly built one huge squad grown on eaten pollution, attacked and destroyed me.
Would need a save to debug this.
There may be a bug here, but it is not standing out to me.
Please say what can be done to find the problem cause. May be other mods (absolutely not related to biters behavior) or some game settings can lead to the problem. Unfortunately I can't find in Steam how to return to pre-release 0.18 Factorio version. Developers did a lot of small changes last half a year. For example changed attacks behavior https://forums.factorio.com/87628 (and it's second part is in the process https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=182&t=87555).
Also I tried to turn on/off player pheromone - it doesn't help.
Hello,
Bump? This is the problem that really holds me from playing factorio again :((
I tried to debug it as well but didnt go further than what garrotte has detailled.
Amazing mod by the way!
It appears that expansion groups do not spawn for me
i was playing with Pitch Black mod and got the same thing. They stopped attacking and doing anything as soon as they runned out of free real estate to build upon. They took everything they could up to my base and that it, they went peacefull. But, if i would push them back and purge some of their lairs - they wake up again and do their bug things up till the point when they run out of space to take.
I wanted to spice this up and installed Rampart on top of the existing game. What ive got was almost like if They expand and build lairs using Pitch Black logic while individual monsters are powered by Rampart tactics. It was basicly this 24/7 - https://imgur.com/a/codykBe , https://imgur.com/a/IpaTWK5 . The game stopped being about me building the base and turned in to me fighting and slowly losing to them, which is kind of daunting (to be fair, my pitch black spawn rate settings were bumped up to 3x so thats probably why i got so many of them. If i readjust this, the game could become more bearable).
update: reducing spawn rates from pitch black helped, i did 0.75 instead of 3. So instead of 3 bajillions of them i only get 1. its still alot more than i would like but its workable.
It is true. Enabled only Rampant and let the game play out for 2 hours and no expansions at all.
Starting a brand new game and waiting X hours is a bad representation for saying if expansion is working.
In a game like Factorio, instant effects is a bad thing for AI.
The time scale to respond to a biter threat is on the order of minutes bordering on 10s of minutes, so that means the AI needs to act somewhere on that timescale.
I have been given one save by garrotte which I appreciate, but nothing seemed to be an issue.
If other people have a save that they feel should be having expansion but is not happening, please post it.
Hi Veden, I played for several hours without any new spawners. So the only logical possible cause is Rampant migration doesn't go inside biters-free start zone as was hinted in other thread. But then it's a matter of fact that Vanilla allows nests in starting zone after some evo progress.
WRONG CONCLUSION about AlienBiomes. Sorry! AlienBiomes is great mod and doesn't hurt Rampant enemy expansion considerably (inland water doesn't make a big sense). Recommended mod.
In a game like Factorio, instant effects is a bad thing for AI.
The time scale to respond to a biter threat is on the order of minutes bordering on 10s of minutes, so that means the AI needs to act somewhere on that timescale.
Last time I played was Rampant 18.9 so I missed the moment you added these new big changes in mod:
- Added effect when spawners build to destroy build site
- Integrated vanilla AI into Rampant for pollution management
As I understand now those are adding Purple Cloud and removing Vanilla migration. And probably it's problem in me and other player - expecting faster enemy expansion like it was before, but you made it much slower since Rampant 18.12. Mostly what I saw in version18.9 was Vanilla simple migration, which happens very often, but is easy for player to quickly destroy it (no hive nests, no sieging, only partial cleaning of build site - small bases in such cases). Need to play a lot with new mod version to confirm. IMHO it is much easier now with less frequent expansions.
Confirmed it. Made a video how biters run around then finally settle. https://youtu.be/e7y8fzqJRSI
The latest should have increased weights in the AI, so the state changes should happen much faster now.
It works (slow but stable) even without tweaks in mod version 1.0, but requires evolution to exceed 30% as a first step, and some time to pass as a second step - exactly as you said. Then Rampant magic occurs and at about 40% evo if producing enough pollution I'm attacked by multifaction swarms - great!
RaidingAI in 1.0 is not so deadly like before (I didn't notice total obliteration like it often happened before - what people complained a lot and what made to turn this option Off for midgame in singleplayer till nuclear power and advanced flameturrets mass production), will test in mod version 1.1.
Definitely some change happened in latest mod version: long time raids occur at evo 2.5%, full scale expansions appear at 4% evo. Wildlife is thriving. I set enemy bases count to 400% (unlike 200% before) - maybe more frequent original bases lead to more action, will check it after cleaning territory.
Evolution = 9% (early game).
I destroyed two bases with about 20 nests in total and biters settled almost the same number of new nests in that region (closer to my base or the same distance the original nests were from my buildings) during next few minutes (started to expand when I was purging original ones).
Builders definitely came from bases in vicinity of destroyed ones. Looks like high density of nests is critical for it. In previous gameplays with mod versions 0.18.17 and 1.0.0 bases were 2-3 times farther from each other and destroying the bases didn't produce anything similar to such effect (I'd even say there was no effect at all).
So returning to my complain in first comments of this thread - biters don't settle on their own "schedule" in any considerable amounts. They do it forced by extermination of their neighbours. That's a good strategy too (we can see it in reality on Earth), but please return this effect's strentgh to previous values :-)
Can you please increase a little building activity in passive world (when player doesn't raid nests, but peacefully expands his own base)?
When the underlying algorithms change for how the AI does its processing, returning to previous values isn't possible unless you revert the code changes.
The better option is to find the new balance.
Mod version 1.0.4. Difficulty settings in original state (AI:Difficulty and AI:Temperament = 1.0). Old gamesave (Rampant 1.0.1). Bases frequency 400%, size 150%. Evolution 7.5% . Destroyed two bases with about 10 nests total. Biters settled 4 nests almost immediately in the neighbouring chunk closer to my base.
I suppose it's ok in this particular scenario. It was a quick check. Don't know for other scenarios I had complains about (e.g. Bases frequency 150%, biters expansions progress when not raiding enemy nests, etc.).
@veden
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m53DzHf07F1ia1-MPes_HWUVJqkwQKE7/view?usp=sharing
I have even gone so far as to change all these settings
https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/81b90l/tip_how_to_change_biter_difficulty_settings_later/
to encourage any expansion whatsoever. Base isn't large enough yet to draw attacks, but I can't get anybody to expand towards me, or anywhere at all.
What conditions need to occur for expansion to happen? Evolution 30%? nests effected by polution?
What conditions need to occur for expansion to happen? Evolution 30%? nests effected by polution?
From what I can tell Rampant AI will only generate new nests when it's in AI_STATE_MIGRATING or AI_STATE_SIEGE. The latest version of Rampant has an option in the map settings to let you know when Rampant changes states.
It also still needs AI points to do this. I haven't dived very deeply into how the AI generates points to spend but I think the biggest contributor is when you kill one of their structures. I don't think the AI generates many (or possibly any) points if you aren't interacting with them in some way... e.g. killing them, them killing you, polluting into them, etc.
I loaded your save and I don't think the biters are going to do anything because they are so far away from you and you aren't polluting into them. (https://i.imgur.com/i4xMgUf.jpg)
e: also I'm not sure if this is intentional or not but you have Rampant's New Enemies disabled in Startup settings
e: I got 5 new nests spawned on your map in ~30 minutes time. (5h 24m) 8906 -> (5h 57m) 8911 I forgot I have a custom modification in my Rampant to give the biters some AI points if they are not otherwise generating any... so these 5 nests may be from that.
The new enemies, Is that like the nuclear biters? I selected the ones that I did want, I am un sure if I need to enable that too to get stuff like inferno biters. I haven't been able to get the mod to work yet. (Thank you for the tip about updating rampant! I thought the in game mod manager would do that. I'm still having difficulties, but I'm investigating it further.
Thank you for the tip about starting distance of nests. I was hoping it was still like it was on previous versions, where they would creep up on me and I would have time, instead of staying idle and having to go to them.
Hmm, I spent few hours working on this this morning, updated the mod, made several new maps, cranked up biter spawner map generation to a ridiculous level, 1 minute min, 5 minute max, messed around with the rampant difficulty settings, peaceful/migration states, really anything I could think of. cranked evolution to 1, spawned in tens of millions of pollution, reverting to "Vanilla Biters" in RSO settings, running the mod by itself, I can not get a single new biter base to spawn, even when there were 156,000 of them within 2000 units of me. The rampant debug info show's that it is either in aggressive state over and over again, or in migration state over and over again. I do get attacks from time to time, which is nice. but it is nothing at all like 0.17 was.
Which version was rampant AI changed? I may revert to an older version. I know I had it working exactly how I wanted on 0.17. is 0.18 still the same AI that 0.17 had? Is 1.0 the same?
I hate to give up hope, but I've tried so hard to get this (HANDS DOWN MY FAVORITE MOD EVER) to work in the current version of the game. I just can't get them to expand at all no matter what I do.
I know a few hours may not be "Long enough" to test, but I work 70 hours a week and just want something that work's like it used to. I want to be able to play the same base for a couple month's instead of starting over every few days trying to fix it, or spending all my free time troubleshooting it.
I really do love this mod and I really do love you, I just want to move on from attempting to get 1.1 to work, and back to whatever the latest working version is. Is 0.18's or 1.0's AI safe?
edit: nevermind, I missed an important point generation line that grants the Rampant AI points based on the number of "activeNests"
e: whoops double post
Another feature could be to force any AI_MIGRATING states to be AI_SIEGE. This way any expansions the biters do make are toward the player.
The new enemies, Is that like the nuclear biters?
Yes, it has to be on for you to get any of Rampant's factions.
(Thank you for the tip about updating rampant! I thought the in game mod manager would do that. I'm still having difficulties, but I'm investigating it further.
When I loaded your save you had the latest version so I think you are fine.
Looks like entering /editor prevents initialScan() from firing. So I think entering editor will interfere with Rampant's indexing routines which are required for expansion to function properly.
@GunthorNC did you enter and stay in /editor for your tests? It could explain why you saw 0 expansions.
@dag I don't know what editor is.I "revealed" the map for 2000 units, I pasted the count base code you gave me into the tilde menu, waited a long while, re revealed map, and pasted your code again.
Editor mode does sound promising. Tbh I don't care how the biters get to surround me. I'm perfectly fine going "ok I'm set up enough, I'm gonna fight now, things are going to get way to crazy" and spawning in a ton of bases all around me. Is that something I can do? Will those spawned bases function the same as game start bases? Rampant ai and everything?
If so I think you just solved my problem. If things get to easy if I can just spawn in bases I'll be so happy.
The way I play factorio isn't to try and launch a rocket. It's to figure out the logistics of how to build enough ammo and get it to where it needs to go. The rest of the game is just icing. I'll struggle to build a mining base in the dead center of a swarm of bases, not clear ANY, have them just outside of flamer range, and spend hours and hours just keeping it from dieing. Rampant is freaking awesome when it works. And it editor mode makes it work then holy cow, I know what I'm doing for 1:30 after work and before sleep everyday 🤣
Unfortunately I don't think using /editor will give you what you want. I mentioned it because in the testing I was doing yesterday I noticed that /editor usage would stop Rampant's initialScan() function from firing which I think is required to have executed on a chunk before it can ever create an expansion group.
I just submitted a pull request with some features in it which should help identify when a map is having problems creating expansions: https://github.com/veden/Rampant/pull/48
The latest should have some migration fixes and a change to how siege functions
I'll check it out. Thank you Veden! If it can go back to the way 0.17 migration was I'll be so happy!!! Can I update rampant mid game, or should I start a new save?
No issues with updating mid-game.
A fresh game will most likely feel different.
