I really wish to disable new explosive worms cause i already use "Worm attack" mode. It have their own 4th and 5th tiers (leviathan and colossal) with huge health pool and resistances (colossal is 7500 and near to immune for laser turrets). On top of it all worms can now evolve and burrow straight to your base. This is to different from yours just explosive stationary turrets by their stats and meaning. Can you add option to disable new worms?

ALSO WHAT THE FUCK THIS NEW SPITTERS WITH PELLET ATTACK? IT COMPLETELY MESS UP EVERY ATTEMPT TO PROTECT YOUR PERIMETER OH MY GOD EVEN "WALLS BLOCK SPITTERS" MOD DOESN'T HELP, I AM GOING TO SEARCH IN TO MY BACKUPS AND TRY TO FIND OLDER VERSIONS OR I SAY GOODBYE FOR THIS MOD JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

Hahahahaha =) Loved this feedback!!
I believe we need other mods to counter the strong of these new attacks, like bobs sniper turrets or something.
Note: you dont want to meet the spiter mother!

yeah, like mod "fireproofing"

i thought the whole point of this mod is creating a strong breachmaking enemies for some challenge, but instead you just installed some sniper turrets, build a wall and sit behind like in vanilla, because they cant reach your wall (otherwise they just demolish everything in less than 10 seconds). I just don't get it. I don't understand where is a logic. Mod deleted, this is unplayable without long range weaponary.

Ok then... I said sniper turrets as a suggestion only. In my game I usually we add other enemy mods too, like rampant, bobs enemies, Natural evolution, big Monsters... well, we like to play hard... Sniper is too OP, I know, but with all these enemy mods, that is not a vanilla feeling. We often loose some games...
Another tip: this mod has an option to scale damages. You could reduce it to adjust it to your taste

i play with 0.5 dmg multiplayer from the moment of appearing this feature, because damage from fire puddle is insane

https://youtu.be/VA-bINC7O64?t=16631 one of my older modded runs with friends.

Ohhh man, that s so much fire!!! =))))
I will try something: release a new version reducing damage from spitter's fire puddles

thx for more freedom in damage multiplier but let me expain. This "pellet" attack is so random and wide what you cannot protect infrastructure behind turrets. Before you should be very careful with flamethrower placement because fire puddle able to burn connected pipes in single spit, also you should use only long inserters to feed machinegun turrets for preventing them to burn. Now this is impossible to defend, as soon as fire spitters make couple attacks your whole supply line is messed up and broken (oil pipes, ammo belts, electicity poles for inserters and laser turrets). So now the only way to play is preventing explosive spitters attacks. This is why this unplayable, can you please make pellets toggleable function (same for new worms, they just not desired because "Worm attack" affect only vanilla biters and have better, totally configurable versions)

Ok. It can be optional

don't forget to add (upgrade for leviathans/mother) to your explosive biter's acid resist to 0/100%, because it looks like in 0.17 they can be damaged by vanilla spitters and worm because their projectiles not homing anymore and have a splash AoE damage

Done

thanks, gonna test it right now. Btw can i suggest some mod? i have a complex idea and have plan to post it on forum but... maybe you find this idea cool cause you look like a hardcore player

Sure, why not =)

Problem: In vanilla once you able to spam laser turrets with some flamethrower support you pretty much safe and shall never worry about defence. Cause vanilla behemots are suck, they only have decent resistance against piercing rounds and this is it.
Why other mods doesn't solve that problem?
Because mods like "Schall Alien Mutation" "Hexi's Resistant Biters" New factions from Rampant etc etc have not well thought. What i mean is, for example - schall's mod (like hexi's too) replace some % of Behemots (configurable) by modified versions with additional Laser resistance (mirror) or fire resistance (ceramics). But this does nothing, you still can spam laser turrets what can deal with ceramics and flamethrowers what can beat mirrors. So, for forcing player to build more complex defence lines new biters should have at least 2 types of strong resistances.
Another problem is what these mods doesn't try to balance resistances to fit perfectly in to the game. Modmaker can just write a 50/70% parameter and don't care about what can still deal damage to it and what cannot. Usually they just make resistances rediculously high, near to immune or completely immune to certain damage sources. Whis is wrong approach.

We can divide damage upgrade states by available science packs, simply its just default damage then pre hi-tech (new name - utility) and then post hi-tech (+ pretier between red+green+military and blue, important only for bullets, cause it makes machinegun turrets significantly more effective against big biter's armor) so upgades have 3 states in this game and they should be precalculated and resistance values should be set based on this damage values. I tried to do this, but it's just an idea and not tested yet (except for laser resistance, i tested it and it's fit really good)

So let me introduce new, more well thought (but most probably not perfect) biter types:

Disclaimer: Further tests are needed to determine more accurate resistance and armor values.

Workhorse biter (cyan) - replace for vanilla behemot biters
Acid 0/100% (standart) for preventing friendly fire, because player doesn't have way to deal acid damage
Physical 12/10% (standart) makes piercing bullets very poor decision, only upgraded ones can deal some damage (big biters have 8/10%) best way to deal with them is cannon shells, rockets, but even vanilla machinegun turrets with uranium ammo can shred them easely, so even if player doesn't use "cannon turrets" mode he should be fine and rush to uranium before 0.9 evo factor come
Fire 90/75% non upgraded flamethrower turret deal no damage, should be upgraded to have some dps against this protection, maybe 90 flat reduction is overkill.
Laser 30/80% after full non utility (old hi-tech) science pack upgrade finally start deal minor damage, fully upgraded laser turrets will still have effectiveness below average (69dps if maxed shooting speed and damage)
Explosive 0/50% explosives are very powerful in this game, their damage should be at least cut in half (full upgraded uranium HE shell - 1024 explosive dmg in AoE)

weakness - machinegun, cannon turret/tank (AP recommended), upgraded rockets, mines

i recommend to not completely replace vanilla biters, cause it can issue some incompatibility with other mods, but simply upgrade parameters of vanilla behemots.

Tank biter(red) - species of behemoths
Acid 0/100% (standart) for preventing friendly fire, because player doesn't have way to deal acid damage
Physical 100/90% any bullets with any upgrade cannot penetrate this, even most powerfull AP and HE shells deal just minor part of their damage (fully upgraded uranium AP 118+64dmg, uranium HE 102+102dmg, still decent and totally killable from tank/by cannon turrets)
Laser 20/0% upgrades required to start deal damage, fully upgraded laser turret(shooting speed too) deal 633.6dps = less than 5sec ttk by single turret, pretty neat
Fire 90/75% non upgraded flamethrower turret deal no damage, should be upgraded to have some dps against this protection, maybe 90 flat reduction is overkill.
Explosive 0/90% for making cannon shells/rockets inneffective way to kill them

weakness - upgraded laser turrets, killable by upgraded uranium tank shells(/nuke?)

it is possible to make a "big" (tier 3) version if drop some fire and physical resistances to 0/25% and 12/10% so it's big biter but with physical resistance of behemots, making flamethrowers really desirable addition to your defence line

Plague biter (black) - species of behemots
Acid 0/100% (standart) for preventing friendly fire, because player doesn't have way to deal acid damage
Physical 0/90% can be killed by bullet spam, especially uranium
Laser 30/80% after full non utility (old hi-tech) science pack upgrade finally start deal minor damage, after fully upgraded, laser turrets will still have effectiveness below average (69dps max)
Fire 0/0% their main vulnerability
Explosive 100/100% to prevent chain explosions of groups of this biter type (should be good to disable friendly fire to other biters too)

vulnerability - fire the best way to kill them

feature - explode after death, make decent damage to walls and other structures. Left black poison cloud (similar to player's poison capsule but with different colour) what deal Acid damage (affect buildings but not harm biter's forces because they all immune to acid)

Whole idea is not making this biters invulnerable for certain damage types, but make them really sturdy against them and force player use more damage types in their defence lines in late game, but at the same time, appearing of resistant enemy should not mean the end of the game if player forgot to research some specific turret type, thats why they still should be killable by other ways giving you last chance to improve your defence before more of them has come.
Recommended to use with installed cannon turret mod or some mod that adds rocket turrets or other end game weaponary but still should be playable with vanilla weapons only.
It would be really nice (but very bulky) if player can configure not only the percentage ratio of plague and tank biters among workhorses (overall population), but at the same time configure each resistance and have possibility to balance it for their own mod pack.

and we still can have your unique, stand alone Explosive biters with their fire spitters and suicide biters
Explosive biters (yellow) - all types (tiers) + some more extra late game potence (leviathans, mother)
Acid immunity
Fire immunity
Explosion immunity

weakness - laser, physical

feature - breach making suicide biters, a lot of fire

can you let me know what you think about this concept? Would you do this or i better should make a post on forum in mod suggestion section and hope for the best?

Hi Ivan. I read it all. Great things here. It is too much code and testing. I would tag it as long term developing mod. I also have plan for moding the alien behavior, that could be here too. A mod fully configurable. I can do it. But it will take some time, and I need to find this spare time code too. If you are hurry, feel free to post on the foruns. If you can wait a little more, we can build it slowly. Yes, I love hard badassses enemies. Suffering in factorio is awesome

BTW, I saw you playing rampant in Multiplayer. Does it work in late games. Love that mod, but after midgame, everyone desyscs all the time. Unplayable. We always had to remove the mod after midgame... a pitty

Actually i can do most of it by myself, i check code of "Schalls Alien Mutation" and probably can just change resistance values of "mirrors" and "ceramics" to turn them in to "workhorses" and "tanks", the only complicated thing is plague biters, my coding skills very basic so mostly i can copy and paste things, but guy like you can get some inspiration from "poison faction" of rampant biters, because they actually create a posion cloud after death.

Our record is 7 hours max. In the past we are not able to pass this mark and our base get wiped. Because we decide to play with 1000 (maximum) time factor in evolution (and 0 pollution 0 nest destoying factors) so whole game based on their vanilla evolution speed, big biters come if i remember correctly at 3 hours (0.5 evo) and behemoths only at 24th hour, so we still struggle to stabilize. It is totally possible, problem is what i am only one guy in the team who prebuild blueprints for this runs and i suffer from lack of time for this stuff, this is why we have all 4 basic science packs assemling lines, but always build laser turrets and oil refinery from scratch, this slows us down and causes lose. Now in 0.17 science packs has been rebalanced so i must do it again and right now i am in the process of reforging mod pack for new version of factorio. So answer is - no, we didn't suffer from desyncs, but it probably because we never play so long.

Now my plan is whole scenario based on new 0.17 feature - island generation. Main goal is annihilate every single biter from island to proclaim a victory and mod "bitercide" should be primary target. It's simply add payload to rocket what genocide all biter nests in 1000tiles range by poison bombardment. Funny right? Pretty much vanilla launch rocket to win, but more combat oriented run. And your leviathans and "mother" is some sort of "you are late, you lose, good day sir" thing, because they have immunity(damage insignificant) to poison.

Found the thread under Rampant moved comment there

Perhaps because I mentioned this mod in the last message

no, this was about the Desyncs with Rampant

ask MFerrari then

hello it's me again, i am still waiting for 0.17 realise but have plans for another run during this week. Today i decide to make my own tweak for "Schall's Alien Mutation" mod. Check this out https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lkIbh67Ggo-wOHKUWg_JsNkJdsGK1-MW, it was a lot of testing and in the end i came up with this stats:
For all of new behemoths i set their laser resistance to 30/90 (20/75% for "biggies") - means nonutility science upgrade is 34dmg = 0.4 dmg per shot, cannot penetrate this, so only fully upgraded laser turrets can deal some damage (60-30)*0.1=3 by 9.6 shots per second = 28.8dps each, but laser turrets have strenght in numbers so they still can deal with this type of biters in critical situations (if you, for example, fuck up with cannon shell/uranium ammo suply)
Fire 1/95 makes them almost immune to non upgraded flame turrets, unfortinatly game wiki provides data that differ from the real state in game, so i came up to this by making a lot of live tests
for Tanks(Ceramics in original mod) i used physical 100/90% and explosion 0/90% to counter all existent vanilla bullets and mostly mitigate damage from cannon shells, even fully upgraded uranium ones
but their main vulnerability is fire: 0/75% for behemots and 0/50% for "Big" since vanilla Flamethrowers is OP they still die pretty quick
also Big's have physical 10/10 (vanilla have 8/10) and it actually have noticable impact because i expect what player will face big biters with only +60% dmg (12.8 per piercing round) this means they will took 2.52dmg instead of 4.32 i don't know how game operates with .XX numbers but it can be from 58% to 75% of damage taken if we compare it to vanilla.

As you can see i have a nice "rock, scissors, papper" balance type
Your explosive biters vulnerable to lasers and bullets (leviathans and mother - only lasers)
Workhorses/Mirrors respect only physical damage
for Tanks/Ceramics your better bet is fire damage
So all damage types are nessesary, but at the same time, if shit hits the fan, you always have a chance, because i tried to not make new biters fully immune for certain damage types

Unfortinatly this is my "coding" skill maximum, all i can do is understand what parts do what and tweak some values inside code of others. I cannot make my own, independent mod, i am not even sure what Schalls allows me to make some changes to his mod, but i have no other choice. This is why i fully miss "Plague" biter concept. It's a bit more complicated, i need to investigate "rampant" poison faction to figure this out.

https://imgur.com/a/zX4qSKu this is my settings, i simply override all vanilla behemoths, so only mirrors and ceramics should spawn and add 5% of diviation at tier3 (big)

Change settings first, then swap enemies.lua file in mod archive

i kinda forgot about turrets have more damage than player, today we reach 0.55 evolution and piercing rounds inside turret have 20.48dmg, not 12.8 this means i should rise biters armor, oopsie!

You have an all new game biters in your hand. Must be a very hard game. Testing is the only wat. Are you going to stream it or send to you tube ? I undertand nothing you where talking in theat video, but that was fun to watch!
Currently I am exploring Space Exploration. It is awesome. I am developing a mission controllled game with it. Next step is to undertand how autoplace works: explosive biters should appear in hot / lava planets, and not in iced ones

Oh, today, exactly at 5:00:00 hours mark of our world Rampant decide to finally generate giant swarm what manage to wash our defencive perimeter in 6 minutes of non stop push. That was awesome, we decide to roll back to autosave and get ready, but this kinda random, so next time there is none big raids at 5:00:00 At least this mod pack show his teeths to us, so we know what to expect. Unfortinatly my PC really struggle during this event, whole game just slow down x1.5-x3 times depending on ammount of enemies around our base, so i definitly cannot stream this cause i don't have enough power to even make it comfortable to play for my homie (i play just with 1 friend). But at least i gonna try to record this, actually i have a saved game when allert is already triggered, just for demo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdyDOKgf_ic

Can you plase add option to disable blood particles (or whatever you use for your biters) similar to Rampant. Today i modified mod "Railgun Revival" and find what it creates a lot of unnessesary water splashes and blood fountains, so my game freezes every time i hit big pack of enemies. This may be the main reason why my game so laggy this days. I gonna investigate Schall's Alien Mutation and try to delete parts of code what creates such particles, because it's have a lot of custom modifications, but i actually never touch your mod, so, can you please add this option too? It probably will help my potato pc to handle sieges.

Maybe something similar possible to do with fire puddles, they stack on top of each other, each puddle deal separate damage, i am fine with it, but, it is not nessesary to create another entity/particle/whatever is this. Visually there is no difference at all so maybe, just maybe, there is a way to somehow check area on the ground for presence of fire puddles, and skip the part where biters just create another one? (i am talking about only visual effects, damage stacking is part of balance)

Cheching entities on map is a heavy process. Maybe it will lag the game

Ok that was a bad idea, what about blood particles?

I think those effects (splash) is also an entity

https://imgur.com/a/H0q48nZ similar to this option in rampant

Now i understand why you don't use Rampant. It has really big impact on UPS and sometimes game runs slower than 0.1 of normal speed. I guess i gonna disable it too, cause even new option "lite mode" doesn't help. Game literally unplayable after 7 hours during sieges. Thats unfortinate cause i try to control biter's behavior by 2 other mods: nightfall and extra biter control, but results not even near to such coordinated giant swarms what provides rampant. Sad_Face.jpg

That is sad =(

I have noticed what explosive biters deal such a minor melee damage because DAMAGE_S affects it too, but i think this is unnessesary, as i said earlier damage from fire puddles looks extreemly high so there is must be a damage scaler for this, but melee damage of biters is overkill. Same for explosions after death. Should i fix it by myself or you agree and make some changes?

and maybe add some firepuddle lifetime scaler? 600-700 ticks may be changed to for example 300, so users could use higher damage values by decreasing total damage (by manipulating this)

now i am fine with 0.25dmg scaler, but i wish to restore melee damage of biters and damage of afterdeath explosion

well.. i guess i should delete thes dependency manualy