There are a couple of places where a 248k tech will unlock a recipe which needs ingredients unlocked by a different tech that isn't a research dependency. Maybe they should be?

I stumbled across a few examples, which might make the point better than the abstract description above. I'm currently on 248k mod version 1.0.29 (in overhaul mode, 248k & FNEI & no other mods), If I find more dependency weirdness I'll add them later:

*Advanced Smelting 2 maybe should depend on Advanced Materials because electric furnaces craft with fibreglass reinforced plastic

*KI1 beacon cores are crafted with lithium batteries, burner generators, concrete, but none of those appear in the KI1 beacon research dependencies.

*Portable Nuclear Equipment could depend on the solid fission tech for both reactors and mox fuels needed to craft that equipment. (There's LDS and artificial energy crystals in some recipes too, sure.)

*Actually, Portable Nuclear Equipment leads into the Hekto 248k modules & module upgrade lines, which need LDS to make module frames, so yeah, Portable Nuclear Equipment research should depend LDS to indicate that crafting requirement.

*KI3 beacons should probably depend on Deep Space Exploration because Exotic Science Packs go into the KI3 energy. There's other Fusion Energy stage ingredients in KI3 beacons & cores too which the Deep Space Exploration tech will guarantee.

*Gauss 6 modules should probably depend on the Fusion Cells tech because fusion cells are a crafting ingredient

*Black holes (& white holes), the S-data tech, and Future Trains 2 researches should probably all depend on Exotic Materials tech since all those things all get crafted with Combined Matter (rather than just structured)

Then also: should the KI2 effectivity 3 tech use yellow cubes to align with KI1 effectivity 3? The 3rd tier effectivity techs are a huge deal in recipe simplification, getting nearly 4x the K2 energy out of the same uranium mining. Putting all the effectivity 3 techs on yellow cubes seems better balance than just some needing yellow, some just red.

Overall I am really enjoying the 248k mod, nice work!

There are a couple of places where a 248k tech will unlock a recipe which needs ingredients unlocked by a different tech that isn't a research dependency. Maybe they should be?

I stumbled across a few examples, which might make the point better than the abstract description above. I'm currently on 248k mod version 1.0.29 (in overhaul mode, 248k & FNEI & no other mods), If I find more dependency weirdness I'll add them later:

*Advanced Smelting 2 maybe should depend on Advanced Materials because electric furnaces craft with fibreglass reinforced plastic

*KI1 beacon cores are crafted with lithium batteries, burner generators, concrete, but none of those appear in the KI1 beacon research dependencies.

*Portable Nuclear Equipment could depend on the solid fission tech for both reactors and mox fuels needed to craft that equipment. (There's LDS and artificial energy crystals in some recipes too, sure.)

*Actually, Portable Nuclear Equipment leads into the Hekto 248k modules & module upgrade lines, which need LDS to make module frames, so yeah, Portable Nuclear Equipment research should depend LDS to indicate that crafting requirement.

*KI3 beacons should probably depend on Deep Space Exploration because Exotic Science Packs go into the KI3 energy. There's other Fusion Energy stage ingredients in KI3 beacons & cores too which the Deep Space Exploration tech will guarantee.

*Gauss 6 modules should probably depend on the Fusion Cells tech because fusion cells are a crafting ingredient

*Black holes (& white holes), the S-data tech, and Future Trains 2 researches should probably all depend on Exotic Materials tech since all those things all get crafted with Combined Matter (rather than just structured)

Then also: should the KI2 effectivity 3 tech use yellow cubes to align with KI1 effectivity 3? The 3rd tier effectivity techs are a huge deal in recipe simplification, getting nearly 4x the K2 energy out of the same uranium mining. Putting all the effectivity 3 techs on yellow cubes seems better balance than just some needing yellow, some just red.

Overall I am really enjoying the 248k mod, nice work!

Hello,

Thanks for the feedback - however im not working on 248k anymore as its successor Exotic Industries will get relased soon.

Ah know i remember https://www.youtube.com/@splee596 correct?

Yeah, that is indeed me. Perhaps you've seen my other reflections too - arc furnaces, Stokes 2 modules, nuclear power, and fancy beacons all seem pretty strong compared to vanilla, but also fair because 248k needs much more to happen. Charged grenades are crazy!

I also like how 248k starts off normal-ish-enough so you can at least gets bots & a basic mall online before having to balance various rich & dirty water sources, handle waste products, free stone sources, etc, etc. I was going to do short videos on things I liked about modules & new beacons, another on more powergrid stuff too. Maybe some of this feedback is helpful / applicable to Exotic Industries too.

The other small-ish item of potentially useful feedback could be - maybe all the fluid barrelling recipes could go in their own tab? I feel the space they take up before the blue / red chips on the general intermediates tab is a lot more than how often fluids get barrelled / unbarrelled.

Yeah, that is indeed me. Perhaps you've seen my other reflections too - arc furnaces, Stokes 2 modules, nuclear power, and fancy beacons all seem pretty strong compared to vanilla, but also fair because 248k needs much more to happen. Charged grenades are crazy!

I also like how 248k starts off normal-ish-enough so you can at least gets bots & a basic mall online before having to balance various rich & dirty water sources, handle waste products, free stone sources, etc, etc. I was going to do short videos on things I liked about modules & new beacons, another on more powergrid stuff too. Maybe some of this feedback is helpful / applicable to Exotic Industries too.

The other small-ish item of potentially useful feedback could be - maybe all the fluid barrelling recipes could go in their own tab? I feel the space they take up before the blue / red chips on the general intermediates tab is a lot more than how often fluids get barrelled / unbarrelled.

Ill definitly watch those. Barreling and some other issues are solven in EI. Some mechanics of 248k carried over others did not.

I've just put up my reflections video for beacons. I realised I liked them a lot, as game design elements, I hope the expanding radius beacon tiers are in EI. My fairly minor "notes" on beacons would be, no particular order:

a/ Modules inside beacons can be Upgrade Planner-ed, which is weird

b/Mining / picking up a core vanished any socketed modules

c/Beacon channels didn't add much gameplay for the UI clutter and potential core desynchronisation (maybe it's worth it combining other mods offering more distinct modules)

d/ Research cubes wouldn't get destroyed by Item Handlers. Which is surprising given there's no way to have the KI cores not produce cubes. They stack huge & I currently still want many more, yes, but there's also finite research & an eventual warehousing problem. Plus the Item Handler says it will dispose of everything, specifically calls out nuclear waste as an exception ... but doesn't mention the beacon research cubes exception, seems odd

e/ Research cubes for beacon limits play weird with tech multipliers

I want to expand on the last bullet but not in a bullet. A tech multiplier base means probably building larger, which likely needs more beacons, but having the same cap and the limit increase research is further away. I can & will build more cores, but subsequent cores & channels don't extend the global beacon limit so there's sharp falloff in value between the 1st and subsequent cores which is very pronounced with tech multipliers.

I don't know what to do about that at all, or whether it's even worth weighting tech multiplier experiences for balance issues because players know they're doing that to themselves. I've ended up using some vanilla beacons around the place, when I'd likely have been happier only using mod beacons, but I'm also finding I'm not so beacon constrained getting into KI3-based builds because of how many assemblers I can pack around a 4x4 beacon with 5 effect radius. So that beacon-need-curve is pretty interesting too.

Overall I like how the "optimal" build patterns change as new beacons unlock, that none of the patterns are the vanilla go-to beacon layouts, and feedback of "I'd use them more but hit the build limit" is still very net positive.

I've just put up my reflections video for beacons. I realised I liked them a lot, as game design elements, I hope the expanding radius beacon tiers are in EI. My fairly minor "notes" on beacons would be, no particular order:

a/ Modules inside beacons can be Upgrade Planner-ed, which is weird

b/Mining / picking up a core vanished any socketed modules

c/Beacon channels didn't add much gameplay for the UI clutter and potential core desynchronisation (maybe it's worth it combining other mods offering more distinct modules)

d/ Research cubes wouldn't get destroyed by Item Handlers. Which is surprising given there's no way to have the KI cores not produce cubes. They stack huge & I currently still want many more, yes, but there's also finite research & an eventual warehousing problem. Plus the Item Handler says it will dispose of everything, specifically calls out nuclear waste as an exception ... but doesn't mention the beacon research cubes exception, seems odd

e/ Research cubes for beacon limits play weird with tech multipliers

I want to expand on the last bullet but not in a bullet. A tech multiplier base means probably building larger, which likely needs more beacons, but having the same cap and the limit increase research is further away. I can & will build more cores, but subsequent cores & channels don't extend the global beacon limit so there's sharp falloff in value between the 1st and subsequent cores which is very pronounced with tech multipliers.

I don't know what to do about that at all, or whether it's even worth weighting tech multiplier experiences for balance issues because players know they're doing that to themselves. I've ended up using some vanilla beacons around the place, when I'd likely have been happier only using mod beacons, but I'm also finding I'm not so beacon constrained getting into KI3-based builds because of how many assemblers I can pack around a 4x4 beacon with 5 effect radius. So that beacon-need-curve is pretty interesting too.

Overall I like how the "optimal" build patterns change as new beacons unlock, that none of the patterns are the vanilla go-to beacon layouts, and feedback of "I'd use them more but hit the build limit" is still very net positive.

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I will eventually rewritte the KI tech as a independend mod of the Exotic Industries series.

I've just put up my reflections video for beacons. I realised I liked them a lot, as game design elements, I hope the expanding radius beacon tiers are in EI. My fairly minor "notes" on beacons would be, no particular order:

a/ Modules inside beacons can be Upgrade Planner-ed, which is weird

b/Mining / picking up a core vanished any socketed modules

c/Beacon channels didn't add much gameplay for the UI clutter and potential core desynchronisation (maybe it's worth it combining other mods offering more distinct modules)

d/ Research cubes wouldn't get destroyed by Item Handlers. Which is surprising given there's no way to have the KI cores not produce cubes. They stack huge & I currently still want many more, yes, but there's also finite research & an eventual warehousing problem. Plus the Item Handler says it will dispose of everything, specifically calls out nuclear waste as an exception ... but doesn't mention the beacon research cubes exception, seems odd

e/ Research cubes for beacon limits play weird with tech multipliers

I want to expand on the last bullet but not in a bullet. A tech multiplier base means probably building larger, which likely needs more beacons, but having the same cap and the limit increase research is further away. I can & will build more cores, but subsequent cores & channels don't extend the global beacon limit so there's sharp falloff in value between the 1st and subsequent cores which is very pronounced with tech multipliers.

I don't know what to do about that at all, or whether it's even worth weighting tech multiplier experiences for balance issues because players know they're doing that to themselves. I've ended up using some vanilla beacons around the place, when I'd likely have been happier only using mod beacons, but I'm also finding I'm not so beacon constrained getting into KI3-based builds because of how many assemblers I can pack around a 4x4 beacon with 5 effect radius. So that beacon-need-curve is pretty interesting too.

Overall I like how the "optimal" build patterns change as new beacons unlock, that none of the patterns are the vanilla go-to beacon layouts, and feedback of "I'd use them more but hit the build limit" is still very net positive.

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I will eventually rewritte the KI tech as a independend mod of the Exotic Industries series.

When you are going to rewrite the KI tech as independend mod for the EI Series you could make it 248k kompatible. This would make 248k in general smaller and modular. Since I like it when mods are modular also your overview of the code is much better instead of having everything in one big mod :)

Oh, I noticed some more research dependency weirdness - none of the 248k Stokes module technologies depend on the productivity module technologies that are recipe ingredients. Each level of stokes should probably depend on the technology of the similar tier of productivity module. Not sure why I didn't see that earlier.

Also, and this is less "bug" - and not even "balance" but "feel" - the stokes & gauss modules could all have significantly increased craft times. Maybe 30s for Stokes 1 and 60s for the rest, to align with prodmod 3s? Even 90 or 120s for the Gauss modules. Thing is they're not really limited by craft time at all but by material inputs, but they'd feel better with craft times more aligned to vanilla modules.

Oh, I noticed some more research dependency weirdness - none of the 248k Stokes module technologies depend on the productivity module technologies that are recipe ingredients. Each level of stokes should probably depend on the technology of the similar tier of productivity module. Not sure why I didn't see that earlier.

Also, and this is less "bug" - and not even "balance" but "feel" - the stokes & gauss modules could all have significantly increased craft times. Maybe 30s for Stokes 1 and 60s for the rest, to align with prodmod 3s? Even 90 or 120s for the Gauss modules. Thing is they're not really limited by craft time at all but by material inputs, but they'd feel better with craft times more aligned to vanilla modules.

Indeed these modules are in need of re-balance like you suggested. The power upkeep of +600% for 25% productivity and some other +/- are far way to much. But before altering anything here I've to confirm not to break other stuff. So step by step adjustments ;)