Schall Uranium Processing


Separate pure uranium-235 and pure uranium-238 items? Real-world nuclear industry do NOT work like that! This mod introduces more realistic uranium items of different grades and more realistic uranium enrichment processing. Recipes are kept simple, so even vanilla players will find this easy to master with. (Locale: English, Deutsch, 正體中文, 简体中文, Português Brasileiro, Русский)

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30 days ago
0.17 - 2.0
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Manufacturing

g [Responded] Improving capatibility with Space Exploration

3 years ago

I'd like to request a minor tweak to improve the mod compatibility when paired with Space Exploration.

Four of the recipes use the default U-235 for creating commonly used intermediates, which in turn makes them a crippling bottleneck. They should be replaced with the low enriched uranium used by this mod to keep it balanced and functional.

Recipes are:
se-radiation-shielding-data
se-radiation-exposure-data
se-radiation-exposure-resistance-data
se-radiation-data

They also return the uranium byproduct at 50% rate, but it's little comfort when you need tens of thousands of these intermediates for research.

Thank you. Love the mod.

3 years ago

Sorry for late reply. Been busy on other stuff these days.

You are welcomed. Feel free to adapt/propose the idea to other mods whenever applicable.
Mod compatibilities can be performed in either of the following two ways:

A/ Extra code into this mod
Be reminded I do NOT play SE (nor other overhaul mods). My laptop struggles to run such hi-res graphics. Not to say there are no online documentation about such mods available...
Therefore, you will need to provide:
1/ List of recipes involved. (Which you already listed above.)
2/ Details of each recipe, including current ingredients and products.
3/ Suggestions to each replacement to any item in involved recipes. (Whether replace them with LEU or other item. I can provide math support if you are not sure about the amounts, if needed.)

B/ External bridge mod
If you know and want to create your own bridge mod, of course feel free to do so!
You can update the bridge mod yourself whenever needed (say SE changed/renamed those recipes, or adding new ones), so this is the preferred way.
I can provide math support if you are not sure about the amounts, if needed.
Be sure to leave me URL to your bridge mod. I will link yours in the mod main page.

Which of the above would you prefer?

3 years ago

Oh, I didn't know if you were still around so I didn't check in. Sorry about that.

Anyhow, as I'm not a programmer I simply did a find-replace of the recipes in Space Exploration to change each line from uranium-235 to low enriched. I've seen some mods perform the same find-replace task, so I didn't know if you needed more than the recipe names.

Nevertheless, the recipes appear in "space-exploration\prototypes\phase-1\recipe\radiation-laboratory.lua" and I've uploaded that modified file below for quick reference.

https://puu.sh/HoDZC/506343f710.lua

This simple tweak was all we needed to enjoy our experience with both mods without affecting the intended balance.

3 years ago

It's OK. I did not replied quickly last time anyway. ;-)

Your code is sufficient if there is no third mod changing such recipes.
However, it is not uncommon that users seem to have a ton of mods (>100) in their mod set, so it is likely for them to have at least 1 or 2 other nuclear mods. Then direct replacement with conditions could be a source of mod conflicts. This is why I have to be careful about this kind of changes.
Thanks for the file. By comparing it with the original file, I can make the necessary changes for your case. I will need some time for that though.

One LEU is much cheaper than one U-235 (3.5%-5% U-235 content in LEU.)
I am aware that you have replaced several recipes as follows:
Before: 1× U-235 → 0.5× U-235
After: 1× LEU → 0.5× LEU
Assuming 4% U-235 content in a LEU (somewhat mid value), the U-235 content changes become:
Before: 100% → 50% (Overall: -50%)
After: 4% → 2% (Overall: -2%)
So such simple replacement (without tweaking amount) is making it 25 times cheaper. (Or 20 to 28.6 times if considering whole LEU range.)

Hence, I feel the cost balance will be better to also tweak amount to match original.
10× LEU → 0× LEU (Overall: -50%, assuming 5% content each LEU, which is in favour of player's side.)
What do you think?

3 years ago

We appreciate the care you're putting into our request.

This is with just your mod alongside SE.
It wouldn't be fair to expect you to balance around every other nuclear mod as well, especially when they easily break the balance to absurdity when combined. It's why we chose to use only yours for a more balanced approach and to rid of Korvarex.

However, it should be noted that Korvarex is assumed to be enabled for anyone playing Space Exploration, thus obtaining the U-235 consistently wasn't supposed to be an issue. Since uranium is a limited resource in SE by design, you would rely on that process to keep the supply steady while also powering reactors at several locations.

That being said, I've had three weeks to experience the mod quite late into the game and a single LEU does feel insignificant, but enriched uranium was just too brutal with the restrictions at hand. Rather than find the mathematical balance once we started, I left it alone just in case.

We'd gladly welcome a proper analysis of the math based on how it would have played out if Korvarex still existed; alongside the knowledge that uranium patches are often less than 600k and extremely rare to find on default settings, with most planets having practically none. The concern was that of ore consumption being too high and being unable to find any uranium to continue production.

That was the reason why creating only 200 science packs terrified us with the 98× U-235 requirement:
https://puu.sh/HoIpv/189058a800.png

That 50% return was a small comfort as you could imagine, lol.
Hopefully you can understand our concerns, but also our desire for a proper balance between the two mods. We look forward to your thoughts.

3 years ago

After a deeper thought, I decided not to include recipe changes as "embedded" here in this mod. This mod is not intended to raise/lower difficulty of other (overhaul) mods.
The discrepancy between my calculations and your proposal (simple replacement) is rather large, making this concern rather significant,

As a reference, two notable overhaul mods: Krastorio (later renamed as Krastorio Legacy) and Krastorio 2 have their own nuclear balance and mechanism. They implemented compatibility code with my LEU in their mods. I feel this is the better way, letting overhaul mods to take control of the balance(amount).
So I would recommend the same approach for SE. Please make your suggestions to SE, especially if you feel their recipes are too expensive.

3 years ago

That's alright.

We got to the very end of SE and settled on 6× input with 2-4× output. That way it always resulted in ⅓ loss which seemed to work very well.

Early game demand wasn't unreasonable with a small ore patch; as both nuclear power becoming obsolete and higher productivity ensured a more reliable supply in the late game. This combined with a chance to get only ⅓ or ⅔ per cycle kept the pressure up, until later finding a uranium rich planet which alleviated the problem.

I'm not sure if I got that across in my last post, but I was looking more at the amount of ore consumed compared with Korvarex, while also maintaining the recipe input/output. Having 2-4× LEU consumed per cycle may not be cost accurate with the ore used by Korvarex to enrich U-235 once, but with properly balanced numbers, the experience and enjoyment of Space Exploration should be maintained as designed. That was what I intended to achieve anyhow.

Thanks for trying.

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