Tweaks
a month ago
2.0
737

b Base stack cranes handsizes are incorrect

a month ago
(updated a month ago)

Rn the base inserter has a handsize of 13 but the short crane has 41 and the wide crane has 83, when the short crane should have 13x3=39 and the wide crane crane should have 13x6=78

a month ago
(updated a month ago)

Also it'd've been nice to have those initial base handsize values taken directly from the game in the code in case inserter handsizes and bonuses to them were to change in the future cos they very well might as my issue with them was flagged as a confirmed one for later.

Like how i did the speed before: rotation_speed = (data.raw["inserter"]["fast-inserter"].rotation_speed) * 6

a month ago

Hello i've checked this, the problem is i believed both stack/bulk inserters shared the same number of upgrades but they don't, the bulk inserter tech gives you +1 to both stack/bulk, so the bulk always starts with an extra +1, but you can unlock stack inserters before this tech so the stack inserters can start with a smaller hand size. It can be fixed but its going to need more entities (twice of crane mk04) to fit all the possible combinations and some code adjust too, i feel maybe its not worth for a 6% error only considering it will add more clutter to the upgrade planners/ui, also after you research bulk inserters this problem should be gone.
About using the initial values from the game code yes that's the best approach i will replace the hard codded values for speed / initial hand stack sizes.
If you feel strong about fixing the stack cranes hand error i will look into it but it may take some time.

About the cranes, i've been playing more with the mod, maybe you already noticed but when moving items that have a stack size smaller than the crane hand you will get worse throughput than using individual inserters, its very noticeable using mk04 cranes for example moving stone vs ash. I only use the cranes to load/unload trains so i don't now how they behave with belts but they must be limited to the belt lane speed too. Im not sure if matching the inserters by handsize its "fair", they will always be equal or weaker than using multiple inserters depending on the use case, inventory to inventory when item stack size <= crane hand stack size is best case and they only just match the inserters perfomance, its balanced that's for sure but maybe they could use a small buff (more hand size or/and more speed).

a month ago
(updated a month ago)

I feel very strongly about stack cranes not having exactly 13x3/13x6 sizes, the cranes should have an equal handsize to pY's inserters.

As for the other issue I've definitely noticed the limitation of a crane only being able to hold one stack at a max, which does indeed impact 6x1 crane's performance when loading trains with stone or something else that has a stack of 50. However both base game and pY will have lots of items with stacks less than what the best base stack inserter possible could grab, so having your inserter (or a crane) be at times "nerfed" by a small stack sized item is very much a normal factorio gameplay quirk (same thing with the limitations related to belt interactions which there're too). You can't really do anything about it without overpowering all other crane interaction. If you absolutely need a bigger throughput then situationally replace one 6x1 crane with two 3x1s if your base is slowing down cos this one crane moves 50 stone at a time and not 83 as it could've in a perfect world.

its balanced that's for sure

That's the reason I was able to pitch this mod to pY devs and most importantly get a permission to edit and use pY's assets for it (the sprites for cranes are made from a bunch of different pY sprites, which you can't use under pY's license) so it must remain balanced.

a month ago

Ok i see your point, i'll work on it but it may take some time, i need to change the code to handle the stack/bulk cranes as separate and also create all the combinations possible for the stack crane.I wonder why the PY devs decided to put the stack inserter BEFORE the bulk inserter in the tech tree it seems very weird to me and very overpowered.
I wonder if should just update this mod when im done with the changes? i hope i won't introduce new bugs now that you added it as dependency or if you prefer i can send you the new version to test before i update idk.

a month ago
(updated a month ago)

i'll work on it but it may take some time

No problem

I wonder why the PY devs decided to put the stack inserter BEFORE the bulk inserter in the tech tree it seems very weird to me and very overpowered

They wanted to introduce stacking as early as possible and thought that giving inserters a 1MW constant power draw would counter how good they are and stop players from spamming them (which it didn't, with a solid base you can effortlessly spam tilable power production blocks). It was discussed on pY's github earlier this year and is a known issue of balancing but from what I understand any potential big changes get delayed to pYSEx release where the base pY will get a big overhaul too.

I wonder if should just update this mod when im done with the changes? i hope i won't introduce new bugs now that you added it as dependency or if you prefer i can send you the new version to test before i update idk.

Imo you were pretty much flawless in your execution before (you obviously didn't use BPS and wasn't aware of the bugs there) so personally I trust you. If you prefer to be doublechecked tho then sure, post the update separately in this thread when you're done and I'll check it before pushing it to everyone.

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