4 months ago
0.17 - 1.1
3307

g Everything is seriously OP

7 months ago
(updated 7 months ago)

You've made some really cool vehicles and I was considering using them in my upcoming Krastorio/AAI playthrough, but holy smokes, there are some serious balance issues going on here.

A rundown of some popular vehicles vs these:
health - name (type) - mod
150 - Prototype Spidertron (passenger) - Spidertron Tiers
200 - Raven (air passenger) - Raven
200 - Scout Spidertron Mk1 (passenger) - Spidertron Tiers
250 - Jet (air combat) - Aircraft
250 - Assault Spidertron MK1 (combat) - Spidertron Tiers
300 - Scout Spidertron Mk2 (passenger) - Spidertron Tiers
350 - Assault Spidertron MK2 (combat) - Spidertron Tiers
400 - Voyage Spidertron Mk1 (cargo) - Spidertron Tiers
400 - Chaingunner (combat) - AAI
450 - Car (passenger) - vanilla
500 - Gunship (air combat) - Aircraft
500 - Cargo Plane (air cargo) - Aircraft
500 - Voyage Spidertron Mk2 (cargo) - Spidertron Tiers
600 - Flame Tumbler (combat) - AAI
600 - Mining MK1 (utility) - AAI
600 - Hauler (freight) - AAI
650 - Warden (combat) - AAI
800 - Mining MK2 (utility) - AAI
800 - DeLorean (passenger) - King Jo
1000 - Mining MK3 (utility) - AAI
1000 - Bulwark Spidertron Mk1 (combat) - Spidertron Tiers
1000 - Ford Mustang (passenger) - King Jo
1000 - B-2 (air combat) - King Jo
1000 - Ho-229 (air combat) - King Jo
1000 - Ju-87 (air combat) - King Jo
1000 - Bf-109 (air combat) - King Jo
1000 - Pak 43 (combat) - King Jo
1200 - Spidertron Mk1 (combat) - Spidertron Tiers
1200 - Cybertruck (passenger) - King Jo
1200 - Lamborghini Aventador (passenger) - King Jo
1250 - Mining MK4 (utility) - AAI
1500 - Mining MK5 (utility) - AAI
1500 - Bulwark Spidertron Mk2 (combat) - Spidertron Tiers
1500 - Spidertron Mk0 (combat) - Spidertron Tiers
2000 - Flying Fortress (air combat) - Aircraft
2000 - General Purpose Truck (cargo) - King Jo
2000 - Tank (combat) - vanilla
2000 - Flame Tank (combat) - AAI
2000 - Laser Tank (combat) - AAI
2000 - Watchtower (turret) - King Jo
2500 - Helicopter (air combat) - Helicopter Revival
3000 - Spidertron (combat) - vanilla
3000 - B-17 (air combat) - King Jo
3000 - Ju-52 (air cargo) - King Jo
4000 - Wirbelwind (combat) - King Jo
4500 - Spidertron Mk2 (combat) - Spidertron Tiers
5000 - War Rig (cargo) - King Jo
5000 - Panzer IV (combat) - King Jo
5000 - Iron Fist (combat) - King Jo
8000 - Spidertron Mk3 (combat) - Spidertron Tiers
8000 - Leopard 2A6 (combat) - King Jo
8000 - Lemon Russ (combat) - King Jo
9000 - Predator Annihilator (combat) - King Jo
10000 - Panzer VIII (combat) - King Jo
13000 - Baneblade (combat) - King Jo
20000 - Bunker (turret) - King Jo
100000 - Landkreuzer (combat) - King Jo
100000 - Metal Gear (combat) - King Jo

Some takeaways:

  • Civilian passenger vehicles, including a high-end sports car designed to be as lightweight and fast as possible, are 2-3 times more durable than the vanilla combat jeep, half as durable as the vanilla/AAI tanks, and roughly equivalent to mid-range AAI mining equipment and armored spidertrons. The general purpose truck is equivalent to tanks.

  • World War 2 fighter planes are 2-4 times as durable as modern aircraft and half as durable as tanks.

  • A watchtower on wooden poles is as durable as tanks.

Perhaps drop the health on everything by about 50%?

The scale of everything is a bit huge relative to other content too. The models look fine when they're next to the other content you've made, but put them next to anything else and it's suddenly evident the cars are twice as big as mining excavators.

7 months ago
(updated 7 months ago)

I don't care how badly other people balance their vehicles. Mine are based on combat testings and comparisons with the vanilla vehicles and my own. You also can't just only look at the hitpoints and not have a look at the resistances as well.

The ingame scale of the tank, car and train are ridiculously too small compared to the character. So I tried to somewhat get a better scaling when I started doing mods. My mods in their own have a quite good scaling to each other and the character. The planes are still a bit too small, but trying to scale them realistically would not work due to graphics limitations.

  1. Have you looked at the recipe costs? Hint: you can adjust them.
  2. Have you ever played with my vehicles? Tried them in combat?
7 months ago

I didn't spend long testing everything -- I was in sandbox mode seeing how well a bunch of different mods played with each other -- so I may indeed be wrong. I'm basing it largely on a couple of observations:

  • I just shelved a 800-hour Space Exploration run where I have 0.99 threat biters. There, a 3000 health Spidertron is a painfully expensive unlock requiring colonization of multiple planets, and scales decently well into the endgame. It's powerful enough to individually purge an entire region of biter nests, but is balanced well enough that it will quickly get destroyed if the player doesn't handle it with finesse. (Obsoleted by the endgame, by which point the engineer can personally outrun the Flash and has thousands of shield hitpoints, when he's feeling merciful enough to not just exterminate all life on a planet from orbit.)

  • While testing these mods, I crashed a DeLorean into a trio of (minimum threat) nests, came to a dead stop and watched as a swarm of biters futilely hammered away for a painfully long time while I casually dislodged myself and drove away with more than half of my health remaining.

I agree the vehicles probably are balanced relative to each other and would probably work well in a PvP game. On the other hand, they look like they're a bit much for dealing with vanilla biters, and definitely outclass everything else that's available. The troublesome bit is the "everything else" are the mods that add interesting features to the core game like new mechanics, recipes, surfaces and secrets. But if you just want to keep them internally consistent rather than syncing with popular content, I can understand that.

I am aware of the cost adjustment slider, but an expensive unstoppable juggernaut is as unstoppable as a cheap unstoppable juggernaut. I'm going to be using AAI Programmable Vehicles this run to try out RTS tactics with multiple vehicles, so I'm thinking I'll probably want somewhat squishy troops to keep things interesting. The weaker vehicle mods will probably work better together, although I'm a bit bummed out since they don't have the level of detail you've put into your vehicles (bombers that drop bombs, unique horn sounds, specialized ammo, etc).

7 months ago

As I'm not going to go around and rebalance each one of my mods just because some random dude tells me everything is unbalanced, no offense...

...Here's what I'm proposing: A balancing mod which adds a setting for each one of my mods for HP, resistance-percent and resistance-decrease where everybody can just adjust it to their own liking. (I'm hoping the tools of mod making will allow it to work like I have it in mind though.)

That sound good to you?

7 months ago

Aye, I think that would work out well. Let players buff the units if they want extended PvP dogfights, or nerf them if they have an army of AI-controlled units and don't want to steamroll over everything. Since the vehicles are balanced relative to each other, you could probably get away with having a single slider for each stat multiplier and applying that value to each vehicle. Many thanks.

7 months ago

Redone the hp of the planes nevertheless. They were false, I forgot to change them when making the mods.
Adjustment mod will come too though.

7 months ago

❤️

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